Hi all,I am considering starting a Phd in Finance in Europe. In the US a career as a finance academic can be quite lucrative... how is the situation in europe? I have heard that the pay is significatnly lower compared to US, but is the pay as a finance professor in a good business school,( say Stockholm School of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics, Vienna University of Economics and Business) on avarge still a lot higher than in most other academic fields?In general most people on this forum suggest to Finance PhD's from good schools to go to academia because of lifestyle and the good pay... does this suggestion apply only to the US or also to Europe?Thanks in Advance

QuoteOriginally posted by: PDEfanHi all,I am considering starting a Phd in Finance in Europe. In the US a career as a finance academic can be quite lucrative... how is the situation in europe? I have heard that the pay is significatnly lower compared to US, but is the pay as a finance professor in a good business school,( say Stockholm School of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics, Vienna University of Economics and Business) on avarge still a lot higher than in most other academic fields?In general most people on this forum suggest to Finance PhD's from good schools to go to academia because of lifestyle and the good pay... does this suggestion apply only to the US or also to Europe?Thanks in AdvanceAre you really a fan of PDEs?

Who would do a PhD because the pay in academia is good? That sounds a bit crazy.

I think the career opportunities are pretty decent but, out of curiosity, why do you want to study for your PhD in Europe? The general level of the European finance PhD programs has definitely improved over the last couple of decades, but your mainstream finance academic job prospects (including in Europe) are almost certainly better coming out of a good US program. I am not sure the same is true for mathematical finance/financial mathematics, but that is essentially a different field of study and a different job market.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ehWho would do a PhD because the pay in academia is good? That sounds a bit crazy.You need to buy the full life style package, but it does make a material difference whether you are paid $100,000 or $200,000 (suitably translated) per year. I would take "lucrative" in this case to mean relative to vaguely similar careers, e.g. as an academic in economics or math.

Of course I meant lucrative compared to careers in academia in other fields. I know you can not compare it to the salary in industry, but I think the lifestyle (at least for me) is much better. Because of familiy obligations I am not really in the position to go to the US right now. I am not talking about mathematical finance but straight finance. So is it in Europe the case that a career in academia in Finance is on average much more "lucrative" than a career in math or economics academia?

I think that business schools pay more than traditional departments (e.g. London Business School). However they demand more of your time. Students paying MBA fees tend to demand a high level of service. In a business school I get the impression that the faculty spend more time teaching and generally dealing with students than their econ/math counterparts.

QuoteOriginally posted by: PDEfanHi all,the pay as a finance professor in a good business school,( say Stockholm School of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics, Vienna University of Economics and Business) on avarge still a lot higher than in most other academic fields?I really gon't get why you are interested in comparing the pay in finance and in other areas Unless, of course, you are choosing your field of study now. It is pretty much common knowledge that finance now pays more than other areas (apart from, possibly, law and medicine). Other than that I would think you should be interested in absolute numbers, and whether they satisfy your requirements. My take that if you are talking about "good business school", you should be fine, even in Europe (though good luck getting in one from an average European programme). If you are rather looking for an average pay in European b-schools, I guess you wouldn't starve in any case, but that wouldn't be something suggesting luxurious life, esp. with a family. So in that case it will be more of a trade-off between your interests and lifestyle and potentially higher income (which is not a given nowadays as well).

LSE, LBS, and INSEAD consistently place their PhD students in Top 20 USA B-schools. I think that you will have a tough time getting a position in a good USA B-school from any other European PhD program.The link below may be helpful:Worldwide Directory of Finance FacultyIn USA 9-month salary is usually between $150 K - $200 K in the top schools + $40 K for summer support.

I was considering applying to vienna graduate school of finance and swiss finance institute in lausanne. Both have good financial support and the placement seems good for europe (check vienna placement swiss institute placement)... Am I missing something here? Does anybody have experiences with one of these programmes? I know that the universities which offer these programmes do not have a very strong brandname, but they invite professors from well known universities also from the US...For me LSE seems a bit overrated in terms of placement of the Finance PhD students...

Yes, there are issues at the LSE, I don't have a clear picture of what the problem is beyond a focus on getting money from students above delivering value to them

seems a bit strange to analyse the ability of european universities to "place" former phd students in top US universities. doesnt it depend on your research ability/success whether you are offered a well paid prof. position at top university or am i too naive here ?

QuoteOriginally posted by: teadrinkerseems a bit strange to analyse the ability of european universities to "place" former phd students in top US universities. doesnt it depend on your research ability/success whether you are offered a well paid prof. position at top university or am i too naive here ?I think the biggest problem with this metric is that a number of PhD students in European universities presumably have little interest in moving to the US. As to your second question, coming out of the right university with support from the right advisor will open a lot of doors that are otherwise hard to crack. Over time, your publication record will be the primary determinant of your opportunity set, but the market for fresh PhDs is largely a market for talent and promise.

I think given enough data, the placements to US business schools should say something about the abiliy of the programme to place students says something about the programmes ability to do so... After all on average there should be a similar percentage of people wanting to go to the US in each programme. I am still not sure about the quality of the programmes in Vienna and Switzerland? Anybody knows anything? What about Cambridge? I dont find any data of their placements of finance phd students.

I definitely agree that a strong placement record into US schools is a very positive indicator of the quality of a program. My point was that the converse is less clear, and it is in the nature of the beast that "enough data" will almost never be on hand. Another thing to be aware of is whether the placements are in fact into business school tenure track positions. A quick look-up of some of the impressive placements you were pointing to revealed a post-doc (in an economics department), a pre-doc (whatever that is) and a visiting assistant professor. Unlike many of the hard sciences, there has never really been a post-doc culture in finance, so a post-doc or "visiting" position would generally be considered a failed placement, but there are of course sometimes special circumstances at work. That being said, both of the institutions you point to clearly have quality faculties (and impressive lists of recent visiting faculty members), so if the structure of their PhD programs make sense to you, you probably won't go terribly wrong with either. I don't know much about the Cambridge program either.