The average age at time of admission for NTU grad is 27.. while that of NUS is 31. It's quoted that the mean pay of NUS financial engineering grads upon graduation for its 2002 cohort is SGD115k.. This is probably skewed by the 'few' senior bankers for the program. NTU grads mentioned that their syllabus are tailored towards more junior staffs.. probably the 'senior' bankers are more interested in concepts rather than the 'hand-on' offered by the NTU progs. Like the difference btw the engineering programs offered 2 uni, NTU is more practical oriented.NTU's program is more comprehensive.. their syllabus is more packed than NUS. Their 6 mini-semester schedules are tougher. NUS grads mentioned that they oni learnt 85% of what their NTU counterpart learnt.Recruitment wise, NTU is more proactive. They employed a senior officer (manager) to handle career placement and actively help grads to get jobs. Their MFE alumni seems to be strong.. still regularly keeping in touch. NUS is more reactive.. oni 2 management support officers to redistribute contacts to graduates.The NUS CFE seems to be 'well-connected' to the industries. They regularly held seminars with speakers from the industries. Their intenational advisory board is rather impressive... with members such as Jarrow, Duffie & Ingersoll. NTU seems to be 'connected' oni to Carnegie.The academic credential of the NUS faculty staffs is better. Furthermore, their staffs are drawn from expertises from the uni's various faculties.. Bus, Econ, Math.. while NTU staff oni comes from its Bus School.

Hi all,Thanks for all the info.I will definitely apply to NTU for their 2004 intake.However, I am little worried about the fact that risk mgmt was the main source of employment for its grads, risk mgmt wasnt exactly my 'ideal' career. Nevertheless in such a bad economy landing up a job is absolutely vital irrespective of whether it is in risk mgmt, hedge funds or IBanks.Vikram.PS - Does anybody have any concrete info on the NTU grad placements? What exactly are they doing? The term risk mgmt is quite vague?

Wanna share something with you people, in the spirit of the more transparent things are, the better it is.I have requested for feedbacks from the graduates of both NUS and NTU FE courses.A director of the Central Bank was referred to me by NUS, while NTU refers me to mid to lower financial professionals.Now, what I need is to make a decision on which course to take up.

I'm currently in similar dilema. However, weightage wise, its 70% vs 30& in favour of NUS.Firstly, the choice is full-time vs part-time. Full-time is more focused while part-time requires more discipline but have less opportunity cost in form $ and loss work experience. The oni option for full-time course is NTU.Between the 2 part-time courses, NTU offered more things to learn. However, it costs more (in form of fee, time and expenses at Carnegie). To me, it is not worth it.In short NUS offers quality while NTU offers quantity. However, the main factor that tilt the balance is the amount of possible contacts. I believe the phase "To be successful in one's career, it depends on not WHAT one knows.. but WHO one knows".Regards

Being a graduate from MFE from NTU (class 2002), I think I shd speak up to clear the doubts that were mentioned. NTU Vs NUS:1) Salary - Clearly, NUS grad shd have higher salary, not because of course structure differences, but rather due to the part-time Vs full time nature. NTU has high proportion of full-time, while NUS only take part-timers. Obviously, if one is doing so well in the job, he won't quit his job n do it full-time in NTU. As a results, most students in NUS are skewed towards higher professional level, while NTU is belongs to younger age group (Mean 28). As for me, I took up this course for geographical change and also I was lucky to receive scholarship (ASEAN) for it (yes, Im not a Sporean). Hence, I dun think salary scale is a good judge on how good is the course.2) Course Structure - As what I heard from frends who attended MFE in NUS, NTU is stronger in term of programming & mathematics, where I think boths subjects are optional in NUS. In NTU, we were trained to program in C++, Matlab, VBA, Eview & Java (CMU). As for mathematics, there were lots of core Financial Mathematics, very boring n seems irrelevant to finance. But I find it quite useful now, especially when trying to model term structure (HJM, BGM & Hull-White), n perform multi-variate simulation. As for NUS, the course is geared more towards theoretical and practical knowledge of quant finance, but not so much of Implementation. But if u want to become a real quant, programming n mathematics are essential. If u think u wanna to become a trader or structurer, NUS may be better choice. Basically, course in NTU is aim to equip u with technical skillset required, n CMU will emphasis more on application on real quant finance problems, which I have to say was a wonderful experience.3) Professors quality - NTU professors geared more towards technical skills, only a few equip with practical experience. BUT I got to say CMU's professors are the best that I had. Unsure abt NUS professors, but do know they employed industry speaker once a while.4) Job after Graduation - True that most graduate actually went to Risk Mgmt area after graduated. Real quant prospect is limited here, where most foreign banks actually does it in London/NY/Tokyo. As for structurer products n trading, it is more depends on yr prior experience and personality. Remember, times are bad. 5) Oversea Module - CMU obviously highlight of the course. Good professors, good outline, good case studies, good chance to travel etc... As for NUS, Cornell is optional n only last for 1-2 week, which is too short to learnt, but long enuf to get over jet-lag.Overall, I enjoyed the course in NTU. But if I were to choose again, I will choose CMU, provided I have the money.

Hi tbwong I would really appreciate your comments on the following1) Do the part-time students, holding jobs in the financial district, got into classes late most of the time? Apparently, lessons start at 6.30pm and it takes a hour (35 min MRT ride from raffles place + 15 min bus ride + 10 min walking/queueing ) to reach NTU. 2) What is the workload of each module? How many assignments per module? There are 20+ modules to take, meaning 20+ exams to mug. Is there any time left to enjoy pubbing every weekend? 3) Do you really need to spend S$8000 or more for accomdation/flight/food during your stint in CMU, as stated in the propectus? Sorry to sound so kiasu.

officeboy (hope thats yr name, not yr designation),Most of the partimers actually catch a ride from some classmates to school, so it will take abt 45 mins from Raffles pl. But for those who resorted to Public transport, it will take abt 60-75mins, hence, most of them end up late. It is quite difficult to do it part time, due to logistic problem, n brain-draining reasons. So, the school actually advice students to do it full-time. Another reason not to do it part time is that it will take 2 yrs to complete, n into 2nd yr, u will most likely lose yr motivation n interest in the course, due to the balancing act between work n study.As for workload, it is too much to handle. For full timer, thats average 4 subjects for each semester (7 weeks)... Usually, of the 4 subjects, 2-3 are exam based on the 7th week, and the rest projects base. To summarise, each semester consist of 2-3 exams (3 hrs) + 1-2 projects + 5-10 interim assignments. However, as for me, I still able to find time on Friday nite to drink in town. For CMU trip, on average, u need to spend abt SGD5-6000 to have a decent living. Air ticket (Spore -Pitt - connecting for travelling ) = SGD2000, Accomodation (shared service apartment) = SGD1500, F&B = SGD1000, misc = SGD1000. SGD8000 will be more than enuf for decent living in CMU plus trips around LA, NY & LV...

tbwong,I just got 2 offers - NUS and NTU's FE course and am still deciding between them. I guess I would need someone's advice (someone who has actually taken the course in Singapore) to give it the final push.Could I ask you some questions on a more personal note? Would you have an email contact? Mine's rivertime@hotmail.com

Hi Zhen I am in the same predicament as you are. I very much wish to join the NTU FE program. I particularly like the CMU collaboration with NTU, the hands-on training and the systematic structure of the course. However there are few factors that keep me hestiated1) long transportation time/distance from my workplace i.e. Raffles Place2) 2 year duration for part-time program (instead of 1.5 yr in NUS)3) NUS FE students can take cross-fac modules e.g. MBA or MSc Math or MSocSci Econs modules, on top of the required core/elective modules.4) NUS FE program costs the $15k whether you finish in 1.5 yr or 4 yr. So you can take your time to take many cross-fac modules, sit in elective modules, go for Cornell 2-week stint, enjoy the campus library/sports club/activities for 4 years while being a student of NUS FE5) NUS business school has higher reputation standing in AsiaPac than NTU business school has If you are doing full-time program, NTU is the way to go, and you could apply for asean scholarship to finance your NTU FE studies like tbwong. I became Singapore permanent resident last year, thus losing the previlege. NUS FE has no financial aid on the other hand, but there are more book prizes there.

I am also interested in the FE program at either NUS and NTU. Being a foreign student implies, that I cannot take the NUS course as it is part time. Does anyone know if there is financial assistance to non-ASEAN students for doing the NTU FE course.

Kanshu,As far as I know, that's no scholarship being offerred for non-Asean students for postgraduate level. The only way for financial assistance will be doing part-time research assistant for professors. However, it doesn't pay well, n it is goes by hour. It is also not being encouranged, as the work-load will keep u pretty busy.

Thank TBWong. I would like to know which is a better degree for entry into IB: MS in financial engineering or MBA.

Kanshu,IB is very general area, it could be trading, corporate finance, investment mgmt etc... I think u must know whats yr strength is, ie qualitative or quantitative or risk-lover, n leverage on it... As for me, I always know my strength in quantitative, n I cant write for shit... So I choosen MFEThats another point I think u might wanna take note: If u wish to take MBA, make sure it is the branded one, such as Ivy league from US or few others in Europe, as it will provide u with necessary connection for yr future... forget it if u want to do yr MBA in Spore, I advice u to take CFA on part-time basis then... Cheers

side track... does anybody have contacts for openings in Singaporean hedge funds? any website or head hunters to recommend?