QuoteWhat is the alternative? 35-40 years of learning new technologies and writing code at very low salaries.Some people enjoy learning new technologies and the salaries are high. Just not high compared to some crazy salaries in finance which most MBA's do not even come close to. It is still a comfortable living which is what matters.

Harvard MBA salaries"The median annual income of a ?86er last year was $350,000. Slightly more than one in four class members reported annual income of $1 million or more, while 8% of the class said they earned more than $5 million last year.The median personal net worth for the class was a heady $6 million. But that number only tells a small part of the story. Some 19% of the class reported net worth between $20 million and $100 million. About 4% of the class said their personal net worth exceeded $100 million."I just can't see IT people ever reporting that 25% earn more than $1 million a year and 8% earn over $5 million a year and 19% have net worth between $20 million and $100 million and 4% have net worth over $100 million.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Harvard MBA salaries"The median annual income of a ?86er last year was $350,000. Slightly more than one in four class members reported annual income of $1 million or more, while 8% of the class said they earned more than $5 million last year.The median personal net worth for the class was a heady $6 million. But that number only tells a small part of the story. Some 19% of the class reported net worth between $20 million and $100 million. About 4% of the class said their personal net worth exceeded $100 million."I just can't see IT people ever reporting that 25% earn more than $1 million a year and 8% earn over $5 million a year and 19% have net worth between $20 million and $100 million and 4% have net worth over $100 million.Is it possible that the class just found good times to coincide with their best years. Plenty of IT folks became millionaires's in the dot com boom. Several more were paper millionaires. It could just be that super-smart folks found good times and made millions. Also in 1986 doing an MBA was not as big a deal as it is today. So those folks probably did not benefit from the brand like the kids these days except to. So do you really believe that in this case past performance is predictor for millionaire success. I see many people going to good MBA schools paying from their nose. Not sure anyone thinks about it though. It is like saying lawyers make a lot of money - so I will become a lawyer. Most lawyers are poor.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Harvard MBA salaries"The median annual income of a ?86er last year was $350,000. Slightly more than one in four class members reported annual income of $1 million or more, while 8% of the class said they earned more than $5 million last year.The median personal net worth for the class was a heady $6 million. But that number only tells a small part of the story. Some 19% of the class reported net worth between $20 million and $100 million. About 4% of the class said their personal net worth exceeded $100 million."I just can't see IT people ever reporting that 25% earn more than $1 million a year and 8% earn over $5 million a year and 19% have net worth between $20 million and $100 million and 4% have net worth over $100 million.What about the stats of people below the median? In fact, what about the bottom 10% of the Harvard MBA class of '86. I am willing to wager a bet that these guys are probably more charismatic and savvy than a quant or a developer but they didn't do so great, did they?Everyone, including myself, would probably love to believe that the nature of outcomes that we would expect would be in line with the top 10% of the aforementioned population under question but the reality is far from it. I think every individual has his calling and it is best to pursue opportunities where this individual has a competitive edge. For some of us, that might be math/statistics/software and for others, it might be the ability to convince people to buy snake oil.

George W. Bush - Harvard MBABarack Obama - Harvard J.D.Mitt Romney - Harvard MBA

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976George W. Bush - Harvard MBABarack Obama - Harvard J.D.Mitt Romney - Harvard MBAAll privileged before they went to Harvard.

What's the deal about international students and visas? I have read a lot of articles about how US employers are hesitant in hiring internationals with MBAs. Does that mean that these guys go back to their home countries with a quarter million dollar debt? Or can you default on your loan if you don't get a job here in the US? I always thought that educational loans were immune to bankruptcy.Perhaps, I ought build a securitization scheme and pool all of these risky loans and sell layers to buyers who are very bullish about the MBA degree.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterWhat's the deal about international students and visas? I have read a lot of articles about how US employers are hesitant in hiring internationals with MBAs. Does that mean that these guys go back to their home countries with a quarter million dollar debt? Or can you default on your loan if you don't get a job here in the US? I always thought that educational loans were immune to bankruptcy.Perhaps, I ought build a securitization scheme and pool all of these risky loans and sell layers to buyers who are very bullish about the MBA degree.MBA from a good school is a way to buy into the power circles of large corporations. Any degree whose value depends more on the pedigree of the school it was acquired from rather than the knowledge and skills gained is risky business. Reading TJ's posts about playing the violin makes me feel like you can get intelligent people to do stupid things just for enrollment. One joker I know got into her MBA school by helping the old in the old homes (Extra-Curricular). In the first year she discovered that no one (even though this was the top 10) was going to do her visa. So she dumped her husband of 4 years and found a citizen of USA from her school and eventually got married to him. How people can do stupid extra-curriculars to just belong and pay expensive consultants to graft it for them is totally beyond me. Nothing wrong with playing the violin. But everything wrong with contriving things like that.

This is too funny, dude. Many Americans volunteer for Teach for America and for Peace Corps to help them get into top MBA programs. But dumping her husband and getting married to an MBA classmate just to get the visa is just too funny.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976This is too funny, dude. Many Americans volunteer for Teach for America and for Peace Corps to help them get into top MBA programs. But dumping her husband and getting married to an MBA classmate just to get the visa is just too funny.Brother, that's the reality of an immigrant.No - I didn't do this.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976This is too funny, dude. Many Americans volunteer for Teach for America and for Peace Corps to help them get into top MBA programs. But dumping her husband and getting married to an MBA classmate just to get the visa is just too funny.I have heard of similar stories but it was mostly guys getting married to some high school educated American girl to get a green card. Which guy would want to be with a woman who did what capafan described? If you don't mind disclosing, which country was this girl from? Somewhere in Eastern Europe?So, the visa issue is very real and it looks like it is quite brutal in its consequences.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976This is too funny, dude. Many Americans volunteer for Teach for America and for Peace Corps to help them get into top MBA programs. But dumping her husband and getting married to an MBA classmate just to get the visa is just too funny.I have heard of similar stories but it was mostly guys getting married to some high school educated American girl to get a green card. Which guy would want to be with a woman who did what capafan described? If you don't mind disclosing, which country was this girl from? Somewhere in Eastern Europe?So, the visa issue is very real and it looks like it is quite brutal in its consequences.Well she was from India and her husband is a good friend of mine so I saw this episode unfold closely. The woman was a manipulative bitch and I say good riddance from his perspective but no one should have to deal with that crap. As to why the American citizen (also from the subcontinent) would fall for this bitch was totally beyond me. But the general understanding was that he was rich, fat and ugly. And love is blind (from his side).The point being all that nonsensical extra-curricular is nothing but window dressing. How any sane, self-respecting person would do it in their 30's or late 20's is totally beyond me. But then again casting couch is a reality.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterSo, the visa issue is very real and it looks like it is quite brutal in its consequences.Indeed. However, it must also be said that the consequences for lifting restrictions or making it too easy would be just as dire for wages in the industry (indeed, all over the developed world). If visas were easy to get, we'd be inundated with the millions of engineers and other hard workers from China, India, Africa and all over, which would drive wages down like crazy. Ironically, then, while visa restrictions make life difficult for those that need them, they also contribute to making it financially worthwhile by keeping wages somewhat inflated.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEagleQuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterSo, the visa issue is very real and it looks like it is quite brutal in its consequences.Indeed. However, it must also be said that the consequences for lifting restrictions or making it too easy would be just as dire for wages in the industry (indeed, all over the developed world). If visas were easy to get, we'd be inundated with the millions of engineers and other hard workers from China, India, Africa and all over, which would drive wages down like crazy. Ironically, then, while visa restrictions make life difficult for those that need them, they also contribute to making it financially worthwhile by keeping wages somewhat inflated.Looks like an equilibrium. Top of the line folks from India/China/Europe can come in to the US and command the high salaries that positions offer because of their skills.It does look like the Eastern education system emphasizes hard skills in math and science so much more than soft skills. And an MBA typically is best suited for people who have great soft skills with above average intelligence, as opposed to people who fall into the introverted genius category.

Lot of people doing an MBA should not ever be doing an MBA. That is what happens when you let other people decide whats cool for you.A Carl Sagan comment - "One must learn to differentiate what feels good from what is good". Just coz it feels cool to have everyone wanting to be you, does not make it okay to make such as personal decision like a choice of career based on such as frivolous notion.