Hi there,I would really appreciate any advice regarding my situation. I am a fundamental quant working for a quantitative analytic provider for past 4 years (lost my job at a hedge fund after financial crisis) and currently working on my masters in math finance from Columbia. I did have frequent job moves on my resume due to reasons beyond my control (lost my job twice ? firstly due to political situation in my group and second due to financial crisis in 2008). I had been looking for past 3 years as I am currently way underpaid but on the upside I have access to unlimited data and tools to test new strategies which I play with during downtime. Recently, I got an offer with double the pay to work on credit side (credit light, not heavy duty quant) of a rating agency. I would really prefer to get back to buyside(hedge fund) either on a blend of fundamental and quantitative strategies or pure quant as that?s what I really enjoy. I already have around 8 years of experience and I doubt I can jump back after taking this job for 2 years. What would you guys do? Stay put at a miserable job as the job market is improving or jump the ship into a new area with 2x the pay?Thanks in advance.

QuoteOriginally posted by: volatilitysmilesHi there,I would really appreciate any advice regarding my situation. I am a fundamental quant working for a quantitative analytic provider for past 4 years (lost my job at a hedge fund after financial crisis) and currently working on my masters in math finance from Columbia. I did have frequent job moves on my resume due to reasons beyond my control (lost my job twice ? firstly due to political situation in my group and second due to financial crisis in 2008). I had been looking for past 3 years as I am currently way underpaid but on the upside I have access to unlimited data and tools to test new strategies which I play with during downtime. Recently, I got an offer with double the pay to work on credit side (credit light, not heavy duty quant) of a rating agency. I would really prefer to get back to buyside(hedge fund) either on a blend of fundamental and quantitative strategies or pure quant as that?s what I really enjoy. I already have around 8 years of experience and I doubt I can jump back after taking this job for 2 years. What would you guys do? Stay put at a miserable job as the job market is improving or jump the ship into a new area with 2x the pay?Thanks in advance.I think you really know what you want to do, no need to ask for advice. Do you want permission to jump ship? if so you have my permission

QuoteOriginally posted by: volatilitysmilesHi there,I had been looking for past 3 years as I am currently way underpaid .....why do you think that you are way underpaid given that you were not able to find another job for the last 3 years?

Sounds like you are not very excited about the work in the new job either?!I would not jump only for the money if the work sucks. Won´t make you happy imho. But if you think the work is interesting it´s a no brainer.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentQuoteOriginally posted by: volatilitysmilesI had been looking for past 3 years as I am currently way underpaid .....why do you think that you are way underpaid given that you were not able to find another job for the last 3 years?He just found a job paying 2X of current salary. Validates his belief he is underpaid.Think of switching jobs as optionality - which role gets you long gamma?Most big companies will pay you based on previous pay, so there is value in resetting your base salary.Will you learn anything at the new role?Quantitative analytic provider is not much better on resume than credit rating agency... so you don't lose anything by switching jobs.As you get closer to graduation, you can highlight your experience and recent degree.If I were you, I would go to the new role, and keep looking.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ArthurDentHe just found a job paying 2X of current salary. Validates his belief he is underpaid.I could probably get $40,000 as a hit man. Doesn't mean my weekly foodstamps are too low for doing nothing. This may sound random, but there is a point. The point is, you are never underpaid or overpaid. Maybe a little.When I stand on the beach, it does not mean I am under-wet, just because I could go stand in the ocean.A person does not have like a fundamental worth. Not like a rock has a mass. You may own a pipe wrench, and die before you ever have occasion to use it again. This is not a reflection of the worth of pipe wrenches.Maybe a better term than "under paid" is "under useful" or "under productive" or just plain "unpleasant." Homeless people are unpleasant. They can try to be more pleasant. But that does not mean that people who find them unpleasant are wrong.I guess at the root of it, is the tense of the verb. If you are walking slowly, it is not something somebody is doing to you. You are not "under accelerated." You are "not accelerating." You are doing it, you are under-earning, or under-hustling, or under whatever. Not under-whatevered by somebody else, in most cases.

QuoteHe just found a job paying 2X of current salary. Validates his belief he is underpaid....If I were you, I would go to the new role, and keep looking.This is good advice on many levels-1. Salary raises happens in leaps. It seldom goes up (or down in unfortunate cases) gradually. This is your leap. Take it as it will put you in a better negotiating position with your next employer if you choose to move2. You upside (access to data or tools) by itself is not valuable. It sounds almost like an academic exercise. It is good to enjoy your work but in the end we all "work" for money3. Your next employer is indicating three things- a. They like you and understand you are underpaid b. They could get you at 1.5x but are offering you 2x because they probably do not want you to leave for what they think is your fair-worth (around 1.8X) and have you long term c. They want you to stay with them and feel you could be valuable to them.Maybe (3) is all bull, then you could follow AD's advice and keep looking to get 2.1X. But if it is indeed true, then you are going to work for a set of people who want you to join and grow with them. That kind of support is good to have and apart from skills and performance you also want to have people who are invested in your success. Maybe you will like the new job, maybe it is your real calling, you won't know until you try.

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerThe point is, you are never underpaid or overpaid. You are doing it, you are under-earning, or under-hustling, or under whatever. Not under-whatevered by somebody else, in most cases.In a capitalist regime, if you sit in your seat without arguing that you need more money, then the employer pays as much as he thinks is needed to keep the employee from leaving.Yes it is your lack of initiative that is causing your underpayment, so in that sense I agree with farmer.But OP has in this case shown the initiative to get another job that pays 2X. The only way to tell his employer to pay more to the next holder of that job is to walk out the door.QuoteI could probably get $40,000 as a hit man. And if that is 2X of your current hitman job, you should change employers. Quite likely that your new gang will have more resources to keep you alive than your old one...

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan21. Salary raises happens in leaps. It seldom goes up (or down in unfortunate cases) gradually. This is your leap. Take it as it will put you in a better negotiating position with your next employer if you choose to moveCareers are martingales.The only way to change the expectation of the process is to add jumps.Quote3. Your next employer is indicating three things-a. They like you and understand you are underpaidb. They could get you at 1.5x but are offering you 2x because they probably do not want you to leave for what they think is your fair-worth (around 1.8X) and have you long termc. They want you to stay with them and feel you could be valuable to them.Indicates nothing of the sort. Just means that at his skill level, he is cheaper than other candidates they found.Your salary is not a property of your intrinsic worth, rather it is a reflection of the demand and supply situation. Agree with farmer when he said:QuoteOriginally posted by: farmer A person does not have like a fundamental worth. Not like a rock has a mass.More like the rock's weight on earth and mars. Different planet, different gravity.

QuoteIndicates nothing of the sort. Just means that at his skill level, he is cheaper than other candidates they found.It is possible but simply have not seen it happen enough unless original salary is very low. It happens routinely in consulting gigs when you have a skill suddenly in short supply and no one actually asks your rate on the previous gig. But every permanent job I have had always asked - How much do you make now? And pay proportionately higher. Anyways good luck to the OP.

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: ArthurDentHe just found a job paying 2X of current salary. Validates his belief he is underpaid.I could probably get $40,000 as a hit man. Doesn't mean my weekly foodstamps are too low for doing nothing. This may sound random, but there is a point. The point is, you are never underpaid or overpaid. Maybe a little.When I stand on the beach, it does not mean I am under-wet, just because I could go stand in the ocean.A person does not have like a fundamental worth. Not like a rock has a mass. You may own a pipe wrench, and die before you ever have occasion to use it again. This is not a reflection of the worth of pipe wrenches.Maybe a better term than "under paid" is "under useful" or "under productive" or just plain "unpleasant." Homeless people are unpleasant. They can try to be more pleasant. But that does not mean that people who find them unpleasant are wrong.I guess at the root of it, is the tense of the verb. If you are walking slowly, it is not something somebody is doing to you. You are not "under accelerated." You are "not accelerating." You are doing it, you are under-earning, or under-hustling, or under whatever. Not under-whatevered by somebody else, in most cases.You could be writing dialogues for Scorsese or someone like that.

I think it's worth looking at how money vs interest is not a simple trade off.For a start, enjoying your work will make you better at it and if given that there is a correlation between pay and performance, you should look at how making yourself better gets more pay.Talking to hiring managers, a big factor is "enthusiasm", often using exactly this word or at least synonyms, so liking your job will help you get it.Then there is trying to climb up the greasy pole...One of the hardest parts of managing quants or any other group of skilled workers is evaluating how well they are performing.Some jobs have a clear objective measure, but they are fewer than you think, trading has "simplistic" numbers but they are far from the whole story and how do you measure how good a model or hedge is ?..before it is too late of course If you look like you are struggling or unhappy then both your boss and your cow-orkers will tend to feel you aren't doing it well, bounce in every day full of sparks about what you're going to do and people will think you're good.A corollary to this s that to get promoted out of a job you don't like, you need to look like you're enjoying it.I have met pretty much every "top guy" you've ever heard of in this line of work and a common factor to all of them are that they are into it. Also of course I've met people who are "merely" successful, respected and/or rich, same thing applies.I've met top people in other fields and I don't believe I've ever met anyone who was successful who ever said privately to me, that they hated their work.I have on the other hand met far too many people who hate their work, typically as part of asking me how to sort out their career issues.Some of course would rather be doing something else, the number of frustrated academics in quant work is enough to staff the universities of a major country, but that doesn't mean that they can't enjoy what they do for a living.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorA corollary to this s that to get promoted out of a job you don't like, you need to look like you're enjoying it.That sounds funny but it is very true!QuoteI have met pretty much every "top guy" you've ever heard of in this line of work and a common factor to all of them are that they are into it.Also of course I've met people who are "merely" successful, respected and/or rich, same thing applies.The relevant question for OP is P(Success|Happy) rather than P(Happy|Success)i.e. not "Are successful people happy with their work?" rather it is "Are people happy with their work successful?"

That is a good and harder question.Having observed people get promoted I observe P(Success|Happy) to be usefully high.Another issue is the discount curve.You have to put up with a certain amount of crap to get to where you want to be, indeed a problem in any careers counseling is trying to work out where that is.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorThat is a good and harder question.Having observed people get promoted I observe P(Success|Happy) to be usefully high.Another issue is the discount curve.You have to put up with a certain amount of crap to get to where you want to be, indeed a problem in any careers counseling is trying to work out where that is.Very True! If you are not advancing in your career and you are contributing massively, then you have a confidence problem and your self-marketing sucks.