Hi,I have seen job postings for the like of SunGuard, FINCAD and Super Derivatives.Does anyone know about these and what it's like to work for one of those as comparedwith investment banks?Is it generally less demanding and less rewarding. I heard their analytics are not as advanced, youwon't learn or earn as much, and your exit opportunities aren't good.There seems to be a fairly negative vibe, and people tell me that you only take positions there if youcan't get anything else.Is any of this true and to what extent?Thanks!

Their analytics may be quite advanced, esspecially Sungard and Numerix. The rest is true to full extent.

All your points are pretty much true but they can be a good way to gain financial experience and improve your coding skills.

I fully agree regarding comp, demands, and other points. Don't know about analytics in Numerix, although I quite like papers by Alexander Antonov et al, but note that e.g. SunGard's software originates often from other smaller dev companies that have been acquired incl. the licenses. Hence, their software (quality) differs from product to product. So you might end up in a good or a less good place. Also, most of the positions with risk/pricing vendors are not dev/quant dev roles. Most likely they are hiring Consultants. Those are trained to be proficient with the product and are helping the users (banks say) to tweak their trades into the system.

QuoteOriginally posted by: overkill112358SunGard's software originates often from other smaller dev companies that have been acquired incl. the licenses. Hence, their software (quality) differs from product to product. So you might end up in a good or a less good place. I mean what used to be called Reech Capital.

One trend I see a bit is that the s/w houses are slowly pulling ahead of the banks in the sophistication of their models.As far as I can work it out, the banks are spending less energy (and money) on ever better models as other activities take precedence and that banks do not feel as strongly that better models == more profit.The analytics vendors on the other hand are competing on the quality of their analytics, because obviously they either win or lose that way.Within that is an effort to increase both efficiency of calculations and porting analytics to platforms that will execute them faster.

Thanks, everyone.So one of the positions is to be a 'consultant', supposedly sitting between the hard dev/quant people and the sales people/clients.Is that any good for learning about derivatives and coding? Or would you hinder your future career as a quant?The companies make it sound like you work from Excel spreadsheets but still get to look at the code. So nothingmuch going on in terms of maths or coding.One other thing is people say that there's greater job security and this part of the market is actually growing.Are there any positive aspects about this kind of job?Finally, what would a London based salary look like in this kind of company?Thanks, guys!!

QuoteOriginally posted by: finallytradingSo one of the positions is to be a 'consultant', supposedly sitting between the hard dev/quant people and the sales people/clients.Is that any good for learning about derivatives and coding? Derivatives - yes, coding - less, all depends on details. Im my view it's quite an interesting job.QuoteOriginally posted by: finallytradingFinally, what would a London based salary look like in this kind of company?Five digits, six only for very senior positions.

thanks, Gamal.I should have been more precise:I'm entry level, and they i've heard the range is 50-70 starting base.Would that be right? Also, do these companies pay bonuses?

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalQuoteOriginally posted by: finallytradingSo one of the positions is to be a 'consultant', supposedly sitting between the hard dev/quant people and the sales people/clients.Is that any good for learning about derivatives and coding? Derivatives - yes, coding - less, all depends on details. Im my view it's quite an interesting job.I would add to the above that you would not learn maths. But you need maths to become and work as a quant. So if you struggle to find a quant role now, you could take up a vendor role but you'd have to keep on studying on your own to get a quant role. Also you will most likely not learn C++ or C# as a Consultant. You might do some VBA, maybe Matlab, some vendors have a prototyping language to script the deals that are not covered by the default templates.If you had both quant and vendor interviews, you could base your expectations about the actual work within the role on the type and difficulty of the interview questions.

QuoteOriginally posted by: finallytradingI'm entry level, and they i've heard the range is 50-70 starting base. Would that be right? Also, do these companies pay bonuses?Much less and symbolic bonuses.

QuoteOriginally posted by: finallytradingthanks, Gamal.I should have been more precise:I'm entry level, and they i've heard the range is 50-70 starting base.Would that be right? Also, do these companies pay bonuses?What do you mean by 'entry-level'?i.e. what qualifications do you have?If you are looking to do something quanty while gaining more qualifications this is different to a situation than where you already have qualifications but need a job. If the latter I would hold out for something that really interests you (modulo contraints such as needing to eat etc...). I have worked with a couple of such consultants in the past. They can either be rubbish, or really add value. The good ones can be in an excellent position to gain some business insight into the industry as well as some technical knowledge. The bad ones will go exactly nowhere. If you end up in a client facing position it could be a good way to make contacts (assuming you can impress said people).As with most things, it is a combination of the specifics and what you make of it.

QuoteOriginally posted by: overkill112358If you had both quant and vendor interviews, you could base your expectations about the actual work within the role on the type and difficulty of the interview questions.Having recently interviewed at one of these vendors, I don't think that's a sensible thing to do. The interview was hard and quantitative (more so than typical IB interviews). But having spent most of the day in the office observing the other staff, it was clear that most of the job would involve liaising with clients (as others have suggested), with very little maths or programming work.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jimmybobQuoteOriginally posted by: overkill112358If you had both quant and vendor interviews, you could base your expectations about the actual work within the role on the type and difficulty of the interview questions.Having recently interviewed at one of these vendors, I don't think that's a sensible thing to do. The interview was hard and quantitative (more so than typical IB interviews). But having spent most of the day in the office observing the other staff, it was clear that most of the job would involve liaising with clients (as others have suggested), with very little maths or programming work.Questions regarding issues/bugs or new features?

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: jimmybobQuoteOriginally posted by: overkill112358If you had both quant and vendor interviews, you could base your expectations about the actual work within the role on the type and difficulty of the interview questions.Having recently interviewed at one of these vendors, I don't think that's a sensible thing to do. The interview was hard and quantitative (more so than typical IB interviews). But having spent most of the day in the office observing the other staff, it was clear that most of the job would involve liaising with clients (as others have suggested), with very little maths or programming work.Questions regarding issues/bugs or new features?For the particular role I was interviewing for ('independent portfolio valuation'), it was questions about the prices that came out of the software, and about the models that produced those prices.