QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976farmer you are not going to let him get away with ignoring you, are you?He can no more respond to me than a man without a racquet can play tennis.But he has a common habit of trying to make me think it is my fault that he is a loser.

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI understand this position. If there was a way to check and verify that the poor are indeed indolent wretches who don't want to lift a finger, I'd be glad to send them to whatever gulag you please.The reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.In fact, I'm of the beleif that your statement comes straight out of the "let them eat cake" playbook.C'mon dude.People who have been laid off I have the utmost of empathy for - I have been through it myself - and I am fully behind using state resources to help them retrain and find new careers, maybe even new vocations.And I have plenty time for hardworking people who want to make something of themselves, and not just consume and pump out some kids - plenty of time.However, I think far too much money is spent on costly medical technologies that people have ignored and rather spent their own money on themselves or their children. I do not think that the wealthy should subsidise this sort of technology for anyone.

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI understand this position. If there was a way to check and verify that the poor are indeed indolent wretches who don't want to lift a finger, I'd be glad to send them to whatever gulag you please.The reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.In fact, I'm of the beleif that your statement comes straight out of the "let them eat cake" playbook.C'mon dude.People who have been laid off I have the utmost of empathy for - I have been through it myself - and I am fully behind using state resources to help them retrain and find new careers, maybe even new vocations.And I have plenty time for hardworking people who want to make something of themselves, and not just consume and pump out some kids - plenty of time.However, I think far too much money is spent on costly medical technologies that people have ignored and rather spent their own money on themselves or their children. I do not think that the wealthy should subsidise this sort of technology for anyone.Everyone pays taxes. Everyone. I hate the fact that my taxes go towards wars and all sorts of needlessly agressive stuff in the middle east that benefits the Koch brothers and Harliburton and Exxon Mobile, but I pay the taxes anyway.What then is this rubbish about whether or not the wealthy should or shouldn't pay their fair share? Are they a part of society or not?That's BS dude.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976farmer you are not going to let him get away with ignoring you, are you?Heh. The dude is a tool. A sore loser who starts throwing fits when the argument goes away from him. With EA99 and Zerdna (pre Obama's recent victory), we know what we're getting.With Farmer, we also know what we're getting, and we don't want it.

QuoteOriginally posted by: Anomanderiswhen the argument goes away from him.You haven't made any arguments. You have simply asserted that an imaginary country exists where poor people can't go to school because the wealthy are on welfare or some nonsense.QuoteThere are many who find a good alibi far more attractive than an achievement. For an achievement does not settle anything permanently. We still have to prove our worth anew each day: we have to prove that we are as good today as we were yesterday. But when we have a valid alibi for not achieving anything we are fixed, so to speak, for life.--Eric Hoffer

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI'd be glad to see what song you're singing when the quant jobs start getting outsourced. Just watch, it's coming.Maybe you can be honest. Just say you think that it is unjust that some people have money and are happy. And you want justice. You don't want Americans to have jobs, or lead the world, or prosper. You want justice against those who have prospered. So Obama is your man.

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976farmer you are not going to let him get away with ignoring you, are you?Heh. The dude is a tool. A sore loser who starts throwing fits when the argument goes away from him. With EA99 and Zerdna (pre Obama's recent victory), we know what we're getting.With Farmer, we also know what we're getting, and we don't want it.That's EA999 - and what do you mean you know what you're getting?

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisQuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI understand this position. If there was a way to check and verify that the poor are indeed indolent wretches who don't want to lift a finger, I'd be glad to send them to whatever gulag you please.The reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.In fact, I'm of the beleif that your statement comes straight out of the "let them eat cake" playbook.C'mon dude.People who have been laid off I have the utmost of empathy for - I have been through it myself - and I am fully behind using state resources to help them retrain and find new careers, maybe even new vocations.And I have plenty time for hardworking people who want to make something of themselves, and not just consume and pump out some kids - plenty of time.However, I think far too much money is spent on costly medical technologies that people have ignored and rather spent their own money on themselves or their children. I do not think that the wealthy should subsidise this sort of technology for anyone.Everyone pays taxes. Everyone. I hate the fact that my taxes go towards wars and all sorts of needlessly agressive stuff in the middle east that benefits the Koch brothers and Harliburton and Exxon Mobile, but I pay the taxes anyway.What then is this rubbish about whether or not the wealthy should or shouldn't pay their fair share? Are they a part of society or not?That's BS dude.I know plenty people who extract farmore out of the system than pay into it, and complain that they aren't getting enough, and are entitled because they were born on a specific plot of dirt.You , my friend, as an american consumer have greatly benefited from all those wars and meddling in other countries over the years, why not strt by personally giving back before asking others - and I am not talking about some token percantage - I'm talking enough to cause some real discomfort - you'll see just how much you want to give away then.

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999as an american consumer have greatly benefitedThe discussion is not really that highbrow. It is as simple as you saying "blacks in the US are on welfare" and Anomanderis responding, "No, the wealthy in the US are the ones on welfare." You may say all types of complex things, but that is all Anomanderis hears in it. And you may argue with his response, but any argument more complicated than "Warren Buffet is not on welfare" is unnecessary.We might expand this into a general world view, such that people in the US prosper because people elsewhere are poor. Or their prospering causes others to be poor, and is therefore unjust. But I don't think Anomanderis entertains such broad theoretical concepts. Academics like grand models, with internal consistency. Anomanderis is very minimalist. He is a normal guy, except he thinks that the very wealthy in the US are on welfare not the blacks, where the blacks are actually being denied welfare. And then he has to say they are being denied welfare in the form of opportunity, in order to say anything at all.So really it is just some sort of simple contrarian kneejerk thing. Blacks on welfare? No, the rich are the ones on welfare! See?

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisWhat then is this rubbish about whether or not the wealthy should or shouldn't pay their fair share? Are they a part of society or not?and what's the "fair share" ?QuoteThe top 1% of earners pays 36.7% of the taxes. Those in the top 10% of income earners pay 70.5% of the taxes. Nearly half the country pays no federal income tax. should the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes ? should the top 10% pay 100% of the taxes ?If Obama made the top 10% pay all the taxes and the bottom 90% paid none, you'd have 90% of the populace voting democrat every election

Well, on the thread title alone, hope that you did not have a lot of money riding on this one.Try some of the upcoming European elections - that should be fun!