QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: NoDoubtsQuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: myTTnobody gives a shit about how much you want a position and how it is important to you....What makes you say that?I care, and so do my colleagues who also did the recruiting for the banks we worked for.What makes you think we didn't? When you did your recruiting, did it not matter to you which people really wanted it, and which people just applied on a whim?I am actually a little surprised at your attitude. Did you get to a decent level in the city not really feeling driven?To kanukachit: If you don't give a shit, why have you replied to my post?To NorthernJohn:I am not saying that recruiters ot HR people are robots who don't care at all about applicants...but, as I understand, they have some stupid checklist with stuff like teamwork, work permit, work expirience etc....that's what is important for them.If you put on your CV that you have a decent education, then it is easy to check...you just show your transcripts with marks...it's also not hard to check the level of competence of an applicant. Now, how would you check if smbdy is not lying by saying that he is in a terrible situation, that he is kind of frustrated, that he's got some loan to pay back...doesn't have a work permit...extremely deeply interested in finance and shit like that. Who would believe in this whining? I wouldn't...Now I would like to comment about what you said regarding UK job market....I am studying at LSE....this is kind of a good school...teachers are good, students are not dumb, shool is well recognised...Now, out of about fifty people studying at MFE program just 4-5 students found a job so far...and all of the deadline at investment banks are passed already.....by the way, ALL of the students I know who found the job (from other programs also) have some prior work experience....at least an internship....Now, that "frustrated" guy who started this thread (sorry, I can't remember his nickname) asked about what kind of people they are loooking for...I'll tell you what people they are recruiting. One of the student's from my program found a full-time position at IB. What's his secret? He has 1 year full-time work experince under the belt....Now...the guy didn't even take any mock exams so far cause he doesn't know a shit about any of the subjects...and this is not because he is dumb or smth...he just spent the entire first term on looking for jobs and preparing for interviews.Now about frustration....I know one guy from MSE program....he had 16 (!!!) interviews so far. He went up to final rounds at 6 (!!!) major investment banks and, as you can guess, received only rejections. That's a frustration....

QuoteTo NorthernJohn:I am not saying that recruiters ot HR people are robots who don't care at all about applicants...but, as I understand, they have some stupid checklist with stuff like teamwork, work permit, work expirience etc....that's what is important for them..I disagree. I know tht HR do give us a checklist of these things, but I don't think any of us actually pay any attention to them. Rather, we try to get to know as much about the person we are seeing as is possible. It is often very hard in a 45 minute or 1 hour interview, but I can definitely say that I do pay a lot of attention to what I think is the level of drive and commitment in the candidate.I'd recommend (and have previously done so on the forum) that anyone up for a banking job try to give the impression that they really, really want it, and that they would not be happy doing anything else. It does count.Oh, and edited to say, I am seeing a lot of collagues coming and going. I myself have just moved banks, and a lot of people aruond me are on the move, too. It's the biggest set of defections I've seen in the spring for four or five years. I'm not involved in the graduate recruitment round this year, so don't know how good or bad that particular area is. I do know that most banks I deal with (in my area at least) are hiring. As I said though, this is not graduate level stuff.

just my 0.02 GBP again, about London market:at the entry level, and for internships, it helps if one of the MD's in the bank is your parent, or a good friend of the family.at a more senior level: I concur with NorthernJohn this spring there is a LOT of activitty. But the banks are taking longer to take decisions than they did 2 or 3 years ago.

QuoteOriginally posted by: granchiojust my 0.02 GBP again, about London market:at the entry level, and for internships, it helps if one of the MD's in the bank is your parent, or a good friend of the family.at a more senior level: I concur with NorthernJohn this spring there is a LOT of activitty. But the banks are taking longer to take decisions than they did 2 or 3 years ago.I'd hope that banks nowadays would not recruit based on who someone knows. It's not something we did at my last places. We'd certainly interview anyone that a member of staff wanted brought in (it's common courtesy if someone asks if you'd be willing to meet their nephew, godson, or whatever), but they would not be treated any different at interview.It'd be disappointing if other places were turning down better candidates at the expense of less able people who knew a director.

QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: granchiojust my 0.02 GBP again, about London market:at the entry level, and for internships, it helps if one of the MD's in the bank is your parent, or a good friend of the family.at a more senior level: I concur with NorthernJohn this spring there is a LOT of activitty. But the banks are taking longer to take decisions than they did 2 or 3 years ago.I'd hope that banks nowadays would not recruit based on who someone knows. It's not something we did at my last places. We'd certainly interview anyone that a member of staff wanted brought in (it's common courtesy if someone asks if you'd be willing to meet their nephew, godson, or whatever), but they would not be treated any different at interview.It'd be disappointing if other places were turning down better candidates at the expense of less able people who knew a director.maybe not turn down better candidates, if there are no other candidates... I have certainly seen internships where only one candidate was interviewed. Also one junior position which was filled suspiciously quickly, but I have no proofs there.More generally, I certainly have seen plenty of incompetent salesmen (even very senior) hired, promoted, and not fired for various non-professional reasons (either friendship, or scratch-my-back, or to avoid fights). NJohn, you seem to have been very lucky in your life in the city. You have never seen imcompetent traders, nor cronysm/nepotism. I envy you.

QuoteOriginally posted by: granchioQuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: granchiojust my 0.02 GBP again, about London market:at the entry level, and for internships, it helps if one of the MD's in the bank is your parent, or a good friend of the family.at a more senior level: I concur with NorthernJohn this spring there is a LOT of activitty. But the banks are taking longer to take decisions than they did 2 or 3 years ago.I'd hope that banks nowadays would not recruit based on who someone knows. It's not something we did at my last places. We'd certainly interview anyone that a member of staff wanted brought in (it's common courtesy if someone asks if you'd be willing to meet their nephew, godson, or whatever), but they would not be treated any different at interview.It'd be disappointing if other places were turning down better candidates at the expense of less able people who knew a director.maybe not turn down better candidates, if there are no other candidates... I have certainly seen internships where only one candidate was interviewed. Also one junior position which was filled suspiciously quickly, but I have no proofs there.More generally, I certainly have seen plenty of incompetent salesmen (even very senior) hired, promoted, and not fired for various non-professional reasons (either friendship, or scratch-my-back, or to avoid fights). NJohn, you seem to have been very lucky in your life in the city. You have never seen imcompetent traders, nor cronysm/nepotism. I envy you.I've only worked at a few banks, and each one has been during an aggressive expansion program, when they were trying to expand, increase market share, and boost revenues. This has probably skewed the distribution of who I work with, as the firms were spending freely to get the best people that they could.I have also been fortunate in that I have been on good desks within the banks. Again, these desks (all fixed income, all derivatives, mostly options) have probably been better than acerage in terms of the expertise they have been populated with.I've necer said, though, that I've never seen incompetent traders. I have seen people who knew the theory, buy didn't manage to put it in to practice. People who allowed bad positions to build up, and who did not cut when told to (a cardinal sin).I am still surprised, though, by some of the experiences people have mentioned on here.

I have to agree with NorthernJohn.We looked for desire and intense commitment when I was trading.I am back in school now. I was trading plain vanilla spot products, while we interviewed people we know, we ended up hiring the best person for the job. "The best person" includes teamwork, how wellwe thought the person would fit in, how motivated they were,and desire to excel in the job. My boss had to turn down a friend of 20 years for a job when he interviewed a great candidate who I ended up working with.He made the right decision.Think. What can you do to separate yourself from the rest of the candidates at your university?Are you a person with good grades and good schools on your resume, like just about everyone else you are in school with?