wilmott.com

QuoteOriginally posted by: Phil23Does anyone know in US dollars, how much one would expect if hired as junior ph.d. quant? Say, it is in Chicago/San Francisco/NYC.?ThanksPhil23, I'll throw out some numbers for you. These are based on anecdotal evidence and are not necessarily representative of the offers you may get. At an i-bank in new york, a fresh out of school PhD could get a base salary of 80K +/- 10K. I don't know if people are still giving signing bonuses in this job market, so that might be 0, be I think they probably peak at around 20K. 1st year bonus should be guaranteed, but again these could be on the low end given the current market. 30K is probably reasonable, doubtful if you could push it over 50K. That puts total pay in the range of 100K-160K. But as others have said, do not choose a job on the basis of what they pay you in the first year out of school. As far as Chicago and SF, I don't know but I would guess lower than NYC.

QuoteThat puts total pay in the range of 100K-160K. But as others have said, do not choose a job on the basis of what they pay you in the first year out of school. As far as Chicago and SF, I don't know but I would guess lower than NYC.Thanks a lot! And many thanks to dc and collector as well. I am not really after the money. I think my decision probably will be based on a mix of things, the job itself, the location, the pay etc. Should I ask where I will be 3-5 years down the road when they extend the offer?

i just remembered a great interview question for when they ask you "Do you have any questions?"Ask them "After a year in this job I am excelling and i am considered a model employee. What have I done?"It tends to cut through the sh%t and show you exactly what is expected of you and give a very clear picture of the job.

Tks for the tip!

This is a very good question to ask Jaiman, have not come across this one before. It is imperative to know where you want to be in the long term. I have seen too many people who have made wrong decisions in their first job and find it very hard to make a 'big change' later on in their career. Phil23, good luck in your search.

Nice question, jaiman! I read more than once the interview question "Why shouldn't we hire you ?", but never heard any good answers...What about: "If we find a good answer to this question in this room, this interview would be over. I am afraid it is not my task here to find a good answer to this one... next question !?"Too much trying to be a "smart ass" ?Bboy

QuoteOriginally posted by: BboyI read more than once the interview question "Why shouldn't we hire you ?", but never heard any good answers...I have never been asked this question, but it is the question that the interviewer seeks to answer. All interviews are an exercize in finding a reason not to hire a candidate. The game is to avoid giving the potential employer any reasons to say no. The typical strategy in answering "negative" questions like this is to answer in a way that highlights a strength while conceding only a marginal weakness. For example: "That is a good question. One might argue that there are other programmers with more years experience than I, but my track record in developing the type of solutions that your firm seeks shows that I have the skills and experience to make a strong contribution from day one." Then shut-up (!) and endure the silence (if there is any) if the interviewer waits for more. One short answer is enough!

dc's post is good advice, but wouldn't it be fun, just once, to say "because I'm a psychotic bastard with severe schizophrenic personality disorders," then sit back and stay quiet.

2 questionsPhil23 - how did you learn about the Ibank opportunity? dc - regarding keeping quiet about pay. I entirely agree with the points made and the usual responses "I'll consider any reasonable offer, etc". I've dealt with some pretty pushy HR people trying to get me to peg a number. If I finally gave in over the weeks, I gave them a large range and said that base compensation is just a part of it etc, etc.What if, from the job description, you cannot tell what it should pay? For example, I was just looking at a job description with educational requirements that were lower than the job duties and skills required. Based on the job duties and skills, it could be as high as 120-150k. But, when considering the education required, possibly only 70-90k. If it is the latter, I don't want to waste their time or my time. If it is the former, I'd probably be very happy. Any suggestions on narrowing this down? And, without giving a number. Thanks.

QuoteOriginally posted by: KO2 questionsPhil23 - how did you learn about the Ibank opportunity? They found me, I don't know how they did. But I certainly didn't go out looking for that particular one.QuoteWhat if, from the job description, you cannot tell what it should pay? For example, I was just looking at a job description with educational requirements that were lower than the job duties and skills required. Based on the job duties and skills, it could be as high as 120-150k. But, when considering the education required, possibly only 70-90k. If it is the latter, I don't want to waste their time or my time. If it is the former, I'd probably be very happy. Any suggestions on narrowing this down? And, without giving a number. Thanks.Gee... you are picky! If they give me 90 K, I am happy. If they give me 120 to 150, I definitely won't complain. But 70-90 k will do.You have extensive experience in financials? I thought in this job market, entry-level generally don't offer higher than 100 k. But you may be what others call "supuerstar". If you get one that high, let us know. at least good to know it does exist for entry-level.

---------If they give me 90 K, I am happy. If they give me 120 to 150, I definitely won't complain. But 70-90 k will do.-------Phil you have just exposed your preferences. Fatal error!! just think that HR people watch this forum regularly....Perhaps they have found you through this forum....

not a superstar, but do have experience. I am not looking for a "first job". Also, my impression with quants is that they do start in the range you mentioned, but assuming they are likeable, do good work and learn the practical issues, they zoom up to 150k within the first 2-3 years. It is the lack of practical experience that makes it lower to start. Look at all teh job opps that ask for 2 years of experience. Also, from what I've read in other threads, it seems dc has a good deal of experience and probably has a handle on the pay. He provided a broad range for first year pay (salary and bonus) at an i-bank in nyc, 100k to 160k. Thus, if you fit the usual quant background, you be selling yourself short to get lower than 100k (in total pay) in the first year. That's the market. Don't forget nyc is expensive. Just the extra wage tax will take a decent bite.You are also making a mistake by choosing a range based on "what you could live on" rather than teh job skills and the market for those skills. Do you ever see an NBA player saying, Nah 200k is fine, keep the million. And, for example, if you applied for a job as an entry level accountant, you'd either not get teh job or get paid less than 40k (I am assuming you do not have an accounting background).Trust me, there are people with skills that are more easily acquired that get paid a lot, too.By the way, another reason not to give a number - suppose they are willing to pay 100k, and you say 80k. They'll assume either this guy hasn't done the research or he doesn't have the skills we want.

QuoteDo you ever see an NBA player saying, Nah 200k is fine, keep the million.Not to dispute your point KO, but it is interesting to note that Michael Jordan, arguably the best basketball player to have ever played the game, has routinely accepted pay well below market in order to surround himself with talent under the restrictions of the salary cap. He did it in Chicago and now in Washington. You could perhaps use this point to argue in support of making the right strategic decision - as opposed to making a decision based on salary alone. Surround yourself with winners and you'll make the most of your talents! The rewards will surely follow.

QuoteOriginally posted by: KOdc - regarding keeping quiet about pay. What if, from the job description, you cannot tell what it should pay? Any suggestions on narrowing this down? And, without giving a number.Pay is typically based on the job requirements not the education level. For any given position, there is a range of salaries that is appropriate given the compensation of other staff at that level. By inquiring about other team members during your interview with questions of "tell me about the team - their skills, strengths, and experience", compare this to your profile, and you may be able to figure out where in the range you fall.

QuoteOriginally posted by: Anthis---------If they give me 90 K, I am happy. If they give me 120 to 150, I definitely won't complain. But 70-90 k will do.-------Phil you have just exposed your preferences. Fatal error!! just think that HR people watch this forum regularly....Perhaps they have found you through this forum....You got me, they havne't yet I hope we all get reasonable pay.