QuoteOriginally posted by: INFIDELQuoteDCFC: I mention this because he wanted to add a criteria to scientific PhDs where you had to stick your finger into a bowl of molten lead.This is quite safe.It's only safe if you wet your hand before putting it in and if you don't leave it in there for too long.back then folks were real men.These days people get hysterical just because their chinese made toys are coated with lead paint.

Quotedrake: me? University of Western Australia is where I did my PhD, and then University of Tokyo for my postdoc (but don't get me started on this whole "reputation of educational institution" thing)Weren't there a couple of Nobel Prize winners from that place a few years ago? Seems to ring a bell.

And here's a photo and outline of the Leidenfrost Effect.

I really feel shame that they charge you their student lists. They can select their preferred recruiters but they charge a fee.So, they make money from students and recruiters. I can't believe this!With due respect, the CQF course contents is the best I have ever came across. I mean relevant and straight to the core knowledge which we need to learn QF.I think CQF is best for classroom learning. Online learning is a bit too expensive with the cost nearly close to 10K pounds.However, I also think CQF is a value for those who have a MFE or MFM from a decent school but not a top school. It does add values. My feeling is whether current MFE, MQF or MFM programs can really deliver their best knowledge in 12 months time frame. How much can one learn in one year, and this goesto CQF as well which is a six months program. In this case, I will probably do a MSc in statisitics and then go for a few finance subjects. It costs less with more technical contents. QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCNoshame, the following schools want to charge us:Columbia, Carnegie Mellon Dartmouth,Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc.Imperial, Tanaka, and Baruch don't.Courant come out rather well, since Peter Carr actually found us and sent the year book. Given how much these courses charge, frankly I'd expect all to be that standard, but they aren't.

QuoteWeren't there a couple of Nobel Prize winners from that place a few years ago? Seems to ring a bell.SureQuoteEducate yourself on what is out there that you would like to do, then polish your skills to focus on interviewing for those specific roles. To this end, read Mark Joshi's guide to becoming a quant. He explains succinctly what the various jobs are, as well as their pros and cons. He keeps it on his website as a PDF.Thanks for your detailed suggestions and advice. I guess my vagueness is more about which area I want to be in rather than what job title. I'm certain I'm targeting Quant Analyst positions, but as far as whether I want to be in a hedge fund or a bank? I don't care. As far as whether I want to be in equity derivatives, exotics, FX, hybrids, interest rate derivatives, credit derivatives, etc. I don't have enough experience to know specifically what quant analysts in these areas do everyday.I have previously read Joshi's guide and found it interesting, although the "succinct" descriptions of the various jobs are just too brief - it comes back to the same old question that keeps cropping up here "what does a quant actually do on a day to day basis?" and, with the exception of one great answer from jfuqua (on this thread: http://www.wilmott.com/messageview.cfm? ... adid=43304) most of the descriptions seem to be short generalisations. I might start a thread in a few days asking of all existing quants "What specifically did you do today?". I have read Derman's Life as a Quant, but then people say (he says) "things have changed"...Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom

i have previously tried to get people to write "a day in the life of" type articles for the guide but so far without success

The CQF sounds great for getting up to speed once you've landed that entry level job. I'm not sure how useful it is for actually getting the job in the first place though. Realistically, if you have a Msc\Phd and still aren't getting interviews\offers etc. you probably aren't up to scratch, it is a very competitive field after all.

QuoteRealistically, if you have a Msc\Phd and still aren't getting interviews\offers etc. you probably aren't up to scratch, it is a very competitive field after all.So, you're saying I should just give up, go back to Australia, and find work on a mine somewhere?

QuoteOriginally posted by: drakeQuoteRealistically, if you have a Msc\Phd and still aren't getting interviews\offers etc. you probably aren't up to scratch, it is a very competitive field after all.So, you're saying I should just give up, go back to Australia, and find work on a mine somewhere?No, I'm saying if you already have a Msc\Phd, having a CQF as well isn't likely to make or break whether you get an interview\offer. If you just have a CQF and no higher degree, I doubt you'll get many (if any) interviews. When recruiting for entry level positions, domain knowledge comes a distance second to raw ability. If I'm hiring an entry level quant, I want the smartest guy, not the guy who may have better product knowledge. The latter he can get on the job, raw intelligence and ability he can't.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mwamQuoteOriginally posted by: drakeQuoteRealistically, if you have a Msc\Phd and still aren't getting interviews\offers etc. you probably aren't up to scratch, it is a very competitive field after all.So, you're saying I should just give up, go back to Australia, and find work on a mine somewhere?No, I'm saying if you already have a Msc\Phd, having a CQF as well isn't likely to make or break whether you get an interview\offer. If you just have a CQF and no higher degree, I doubt you'll get many (if any) interviews. When recruiting for entry level positions, domain knowledge comes a distance second to raw ability. If I'm hiring an entry level quant, I want the smartest guy, not the guy who may have better product knowledge. The latter he can get on the job, raw intelligence and ability he can't.How does that go if you are looking for a trading assistant role or a quant developer role? Then, does having CQF help you?

there are some comments from an Australian who did a Phd in Japan in my guide.

QuoteOriginally posted by: sriharshaHow does that go if you are looking for a trading assistant role or a quant developer role? Then, does having CQF help you?For quant developers. Probably not. What firms tend to do is to look for people with very, very strong programming skills, hire them, and then put them through a CQF or equivalent course.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ArthurDentSomewhere along the way this notion disappeared (thanks to corporate greed and wishful short-term thinking by MBA types) and training is now seen as a cost, so that employees are expected to be fully trained and well-experienced, ready to hit the ground running on day one. Ha!Companies are willing to spend a huge amount of money on training, and the CQF is very well suited for companies who want to give finance training to existing employees. However for people with Ph.D.'s one problem with having more schooling is that it just delays the day that you need to go out into the "real world." The hard thing for me in finding a job was not technical skills, the hard thing was learning to talk to people on the phone, giving a sales pitch, trying to put myself in the mind of the customer, following up leads, trying to figure out what the heck is going on. It's not the case that you can call four or five people and get a job, and this comes as a jarring experience to someone who has always gotten been "accepted" after sending out four or five applications. If you just send out resumes and wait next to the phone, nothing is going to happen. In academia, rejection is a death sentence, whereas in business rejection is just another day in the office.The one fortunate thing is that I know people in sales and telemarketing, and a lot of my education was watching salesmen and telemarketers in action.

QuoteOriginally posted by: drakeI'm seeing the CQF as a way to fast-track things, I just want reassurance that I'm not being deluded somehow.It won't fast track things. The CQF is useful, but you should be very actively looking for a job while you are studying for the CQF, and not waiting until you get the certificate. The process of going through a job search is part of your education.QuoteWell, I haven't had any interviews yet, so perhaps not, but I keep getting told that I have a pretty solid case. So perhaps its just a matter of timeHave you gotten any feedback from HH's as to why you haven't had interviews? There are a number of possibilities. First of all, there may be something wrong with the way you've written your sales brochure (i.e. your resume). Second, it may be that you aren't contacting enough people, or aren't following up enough.

QuoteThe hard thing for me in finding a job was not technical skills, the hard thing was learning to talk to people on the phone, giving a sales pitch, trying to put myself in the mind of the customer, following up leads, trying to figure out what the heck is going on.More and more, I'm coming to realise that this is the real battle. All of my life I've operated on the premise that its better to show people what you can do (academic grades, sports, projects, etc) rather than blowing your own trumpet and risk coming across as being full of hot air. But in the real world (perhaps even more so in finance) it seems you need to blow your own trumpet quite loudly.As for my job hunting, I've only been seriously in the game a few months. My CV is certainly out there in some of the right places - every few days I get calls by head hunting firms that I've never heard of who have somehow found my CV and want to know more about me. I should start asking where they got my CV. Just a few days ago one of them said that my CV needs work, so I've taken on his constructive criticisms and produced a fresh version. Hopefully I'm getting it to look more like the sales brochure that employers find attractive.