QuoteOriginally posted by: SiberianSo forgive me if I presumed that you are constituting that part of the muslim world.I forgive you. Lets not distract from the thread discussion. There is an interesting thread on this forum initiated by Aaron Brown long time ago. Search for it. Also why not start by reading this paper ?

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosaurusQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteOriginally posted by: brontosaurusQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenDo you want to clarify what the "Mt. Dov sector" is, bronto, or should I? be my guest. It has nothing to do with Lebanon.Right. And "Denial" is a river in Egypt.I put it to you that were Syria to have ceded this land to Lebanon, it would have been included in the withdrawl in 2000. Whilst leaving this land gives Hizbollah a pretext for continuing their "resistance", at least concede that that's all it is, a pretext. It seems "Denial" runs through Brookville too.From Report of the Secretary-General on the implementation ofSecurity Council resolutions 425 (1978) and 426 (1978):QuoteThe Government of Lebanon subsequently provided the United Nations with title deeds of Lebanese ownership of farmlands in this area, as well as with documentation indicating that Lebanese governmental and religious institutions had enjoyed, at various points in time, jurisdiction over those farmlands. The Government of Lebanon informed the United Nations of a joint understanding between Lebanon and the Syrian Arab Republic that the farmlands were Lebanese, including a decision of a joint Lebanese-Syrian border committee that concluded in 1964 that the area was Lebanese and that the international border should be redefined consistent with that conclusion. In a telephone conversation with me on 16 May 2000, the Syrian Foreign Minister, Mr. Al-Shara', stated that the Syrian Arab Republic supported Lebanon's claim.Looks like you don't know what you're talking about, bronto. Again.

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosaurusQuoteWhat exactly were the citizens of Tyre being "warned" about through this effort to terrorize them?.....You say they were being warned -- what were they being warned of? They were being warned of what will happen to their country unless they able to take control of their borders.Is this what the Israeli government said when it committed this act of war? Or are you just making up facts to suit your argument again?

last time I checked Israel withdrawl was complete, by UN standards. Kofi and his friends making comments that aren't legally binding mean very little.That you are denying the Sheba farms are a pretty poor excuse to keep the conflict on the North alive, is to my mind, indicative that you can't give Israel any balanced moral judgement.

regarding you second reply, you think that the IAF likes to play war games over lebanese territory for the fun of it. What can I say to you? I'm not making up facts, merely representing the opinions of mainstream Israelis. This is how they see these kind of flights. Like I said they do the same thing after sucide bombings over Syrian targets. It's all over the Israeli media at the time.

Quoteas of 16 June 2000 Israel has withdrawn its forces from Lebanon in accordance with resolution 425 (1978) of 19 March 1978 and met the requirements defined in the Secretary-General’s report of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)UN statement on Israel's withdrawl

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruslast time I checked Israel withdrawl was complete, by UN standards. Kofi and his friends making comments that aren't legally binding mean very little.I see, so UN resoulitions are now legally binding?

why not comment on the real point here, gardener - and that is that you see the Shebaa Farms issue as clearly justifying continued aggression, or "freedom fighting" agaisnt Israel.

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not comment on the real point here, gardener - and that is that you see the Shebaa Farms issue as clearly justifying continued aggression, or "freedom fighting" agaisnt Israel.The point is that you are mentioning UN resolution violations and how they are legally binding, and completely ignore violations by Israel. Btw, according to UN Sheba farms is considred to be part of Golan Heights and occupied territory, for which there is a 'legally binding' resolution for Israel to withdraw.

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3 according to UN Sheba farms is considred to be part of Golan Heights and occupied territoryaccording to Marsden it isn't. It is Lebanese, and this is why Hezbollah is justified in fighting for it from lebanese territory.

It is a dispute between Syria and Lebanon then, is it? We know what the Syrian and Labanese views are with respect to this region. Israel is 'legally bound', to use your language, to get out of there.

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3One is a predmoninantly sunni, the other a shi'ite group. And they hate each other:So ? Obviously you are not closely familiar with the middle east. The one thing that unifies all sectsin radical Islam is the hatered to the west and, specifically, Israel.I stand by what I wrote about what Osama said in regards to Imad Mugniyah.

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3I see, so UN resoulitions are now legally binding? QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3The point is that you are mentioning UN resolution violations and how they are legally binding, and completely ignore violations by Israel. Btw, according to UN Sheba farms is considred to be part of Golan Heights and occupied territory, for which there is a 'legally binding' resolution for Israel to withdrawYou are twisting this around. The point is that it is the Arabs that always ran to the UN after every timein which Israel retaliated to their aggresive and provoking acts, to ask for the UN to condemn Israeland issue unilateral statements against Israel. This has finally changed in the last decade, mainlyafter the world got a taste of what Israel has been dealing with for years. The amusing thing here isthat for years it were the ARABS that ran to the UN to get votes/statements against Israel, but whenthe UN finally issues a statement that the arabs don't like (1559), they simply ignore it.Israel on the other hand has always known who it was dealing with and of the 'neutrality' and 'balance'of UN resolutions and it was already David Ben Gurion who over 50 years ago coined a special termabout the irrelevancy and incompetancy of the UN to do anything helpful in the Israeli-Arab conflict.The UN was never involved in any of the peace agreements that Israel signed with some of it'sneighbours. The only facilitator was the USA.

Look at the number of resolutions against Israel and what they say, and you are focusing on one. And you are saying I am twisting things around?

QuoteOriginally posted by: joshua2718The UN was never involved in any of the peace agreements that Israel signed with some of it's neighbours. The only facilitator was the USA.That's because Israel would never get what it wants with UN around to facilitate. Since much of US govt works for Israel, US facilitating ensures a favourable solution.