well now you know why Im called htmlballsup

QuoteOriginally posted by: htmlballsupI am agnostic on the conclusions that can be drawn from those observations.Can someone be selectively agnostic? Or isn't an agnostic agnostic about everything?Someone who knows when to be agnostic and when not to, is not really that agnostic after all. More just "politically correct" or "polite" or "pragmatic.""Agnostic" is a new word for me. Is that what I am when a girl asks me if she "looks 28?"

QuoteI am not arguing that either of you are wrong in stating what you observe - merely that I am agnostic on the conclusions that can be drawn from those observations. Draw any conclusions, i am not going to argue. My argument with you was not whether you have a more reasonable interpretation of facts than someone else. It was about you stating as a fact things that are untrue. You could talk all day long why Mr.Smith is taller, just don't say he is shorter than Mr.Jones if he isn't, that's all i am asking.

Sorry for the personal views, but in truth I feel priviledged to be of a generation, and to have worked and studied in environments, where there has been serious progress away from the traditional male dominance. The line, it is drawn, the curse, it is castThe slow one will later be fastAnd the present now will soon be the pastThe order is rapidly fadingThe first one now will later be lastFor the times, they are a changing - Bob Dylan

QuoteOriginally posted by: htmlballsupin truth I feel priviledgedThen you should be taxed. This pleasure is a form of income, enjoyed at a cost to others.We should attach a price to this arbitrary "value" you place on seeing an image of a woman doing math, and bill you for it.It's kind of like topless waitresses. It's not the drink you value, it's who is serving them. In this case, it's not the accuracy of the option price, it's who is doing the pricing. In Modesto California, there was an RV dealership with topless salesgirls, I think. The only difference, is that if I like seeing women dancing on a pole, then I shell out the crumpled bills from my own pocket. People who want to see women doign math, for some bizarre reason, presume other people should foot the bill on their behalf. And then, like a woman, they try to talk those other people into paying!If equality is a good whose consumers are observers - like a movie, museum, or botanical garden - which good brings pleasure disproportionately to some more than to others, then those that enjoy it more - the "wealthy" in that system, in effect - should pay more for it.You want more women doing math, open a dealing desk, or a flash memory R&D lab, and hire all women. I will envy you.

QuoteThen you should be taxed.I am, so are all the women I have worked/studied with.

dudes this thread is getting pretty surreal at this point. i must admit that i have never seen a thread with topless waitresses being analogous to female quants.whilst it is no doubt true that some female quants are hot, i doubt anyone gets off watching them do math.(if anyone out there DOES get off on this, please spare us by not joining this thread)

I've met many women in physics and never found anything abnormal in their distribution of intelligence vis-a-vis men. But, among the lay public, it is quite obvious that interest in physics is sharply higher among men than women. My male friends frequently sound me about buzz words they might have heard like "string theory", "quarks", "black holes" etc, but it is very rare for a female friend to do the same. I cannot even keep track of the number of women who have told me they "hate physics" - but not more than 1 or 2 guys who have said the same. Interestingly, while teaching I found that many of the women who said they hated physics, were in fact scoring quite well(!) And some guys who were making a D- would still send me emails about how they thought my short digressions into quantum gravity (say) were the coolest!I think women are just not interested in heavy math on the average. But I take this observation with a grain of salt because I find lay women from Eastern Europe and even China show a much greater affinity to physics.So perhaps it is just American women who are repelled by math!

Energydude: My experiences teaching physics and having guys ask me about popular physics issues are exactly the same as yours, but apply to the US, Germany and Britain. In particular I saw few female physicists in Germany.But I also did physics and taught a bit in Paris, and there it was very very different! I worked in a lab where there were loads of female experimental physicists, almost 50% I think. I thought that the lab director had hired women for some personal reason, until I worked out that many labs had a significant number of women working there (though less than 50%). I quietly asked why there were so many women, and the first answers I got were "why shoudn't there be?" I explained that in my experience women were a significant minority, and one older female researcher told me that in France women all knew the story of Pierre and Marie Curie, and were inspired by Marie. She said that France had the highest percentage of female professors in the world, perhaps because of this.I don't know if this statistic is true, but if so, might indicate that the male/female science/math disparity we observe in everyday life is more nurture than nature.Maybe some of you French guys and gals could give your opinions on this? Am I wrong in thinking that there is a higher percentage of science/math females in France?

OK, I'll come clean and admit the subject I was talking about was astrophysics. There was definitely a trend to see more and more women at PhD and Postdoc level, and Id say it was a bit ahead of physics on that front. What is the chance that our (anecdotal) experiences are actually 10 years ahead of the official statistics?Oh yeah the year I graduated, Im pretty sure the top of maths and mathematical-physics were both women. They both went to work in the city, rather than take PhDs. In fact the top mark in astrophysics went to a woman too but for some reason they refused to interview her for a PhD.

Ppauper raises perhaps the best point in this threadat the time, young girls were treating Wellesley as a finishing school, and leaving after 4 years with the coveted Mrs degree and a rich husband from harvard.Julia Roberts set them to rights, and instead of being rich married and happy, after her intervention, they were poor single and miserable. There is always a tension between what is good for society and what is good for the individual.Scoiety benefits hugely from highly educated women working in it.But are the women happier ?PPauper thinks not, and I'm inclined to agree with him.The media tends to focus on high specification women like the ones in the Julia Roberts film. More commonly, women in our society often have to shoulder the burden of hard jobs and maintenance of the home and kids.

DudeWomen arent the only ones that have a life to balance. I'd rather be surfing a perfect S. American left at the moment.Come to think of it I will be. (Ballsup has March off).

Let's just ignore idiots like Farmer since there are less and less of them and more rationality on the trading floor nowdays.My experience is french university. Pure Maths field.What I know is that in france after the first two years at uni, only the most dedicated or simply just good students remain. These two years act as a kind of "skimming process".At the "maitrise" level (roughly Bsc level ?) there were as many girls as guys. Even in the top 4 the proportion was even.Appart from me, they all went into teaching. May be that explains why there were less girls at the DEA level (right before PhD level).To me it just proves (if a proof is even needed...) that there is no superiority of men in science, there is cultural difference that's all.Collector: let's not start the "girly men" discussion again

In Holland if you are a girl and study maths you are considered a weirdo. In France it's very chique to study maths (at least in the past). Furthermore, these girls tend to be very good looking and classy (meant as a compliment)

"these girls tend to be very good looking and classy"