QuoteWhy is it that whenever we have two superpowersWhat happens if we have a third superpower come along as well....or does that never happen .........

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerQuoteWhy is it that whenever we have two superpowersWhat happens if we have a third superpower come along as well....or does that never happen .........We could have three now, if you consider the EU a superpower. After all it has the largest collective GDP and is the world's largest exporter. Now, if only it's member countries could agree on one thing, the RoW might take us more seriously.

QuoteOriginally posted by: laosun And your are right, that is 250 000 usd aid to china, not the 200 000 I mentioned, usa are 50 000 usd more generous than I initially believed that's a halftruth at best.I posted that they gave $250k in aid and two DC10s full of supplies:QuoteFedEx Delivers US Government Relief Aid to China August 23, 1998 CHANGSHA, CHINA — Federal Express Corporation (FedEx) today delivered US Government flood-relief supplies to China's Yangtze River region. This emergency mission was carried out in cooperation with the US Embassy in Beijing. The FedEx DC-10 was loaded with tents, blankets, plastic sheeting and water containers that were part of a two-plane US Government relief effort — the first flight was flown in by a US Air Force plane in early August. The FedEx flight originated from Anderson AFB, Guam, and was met by Mr. James Moriarty, Acting Deputy Chief of Mission, US Embassy and a crew of FedEx staff who helped unload the goods manually at Huanghua International Airport in Changsha, Hunan Province."FedEx is pleased to see our planes being used to help the Chinese people in times of crisis," said Peter Yin, Vice President, Marketing, Communications and Customer Service of FedEx Asia Pacific. "While our transportation network and logistics capabilities have been set up to facilitate the movement of goods for commercial purposes, we are ready to use them for humanitarian efforts. Our hearts go out to the people of the Hubei and Hunan provinces and other flood-plagued regions of China."FedEx is the only US-based air cargo company with rights to fly into China and has previously used its aviation and logistics capabilities to support other relief efforts in the country, including earthquake relief in Hebei Province this year and Heart to Heart International medical supply airlifts to Chengdu (1997) and Chongqing (1998)."I want to thank FedEx for their prompt response to this urgent humanitarian crisis," said James Sasser, US ambassador to China. "It is my sincere hope that these relief supplies can help save lives and improve conditions for the people suffering from these floods." Sasser recently visited Hubei Province and announced a US Government US$250,000 donation to the Red Cross earmarked for providing clean water and sanitary services to China's flood-stricken areas.

We could have three now, if you consider the EU a superpower. After all it has the largest collective GDP and is the world's largest exporter. Now, if only it's member countries could agree on one thing, the RoW might take us more seriously.I think the causality is the other way round.EU nations are rich because we don't do superpower crap. Russia used to do this. It didn't end well.How would the people in te EU benefit from being in a superpower ?Any military attack would be utterly destroyed by the French and British, and maybe the Germans would do send them really nasty letters.The only people we might plausibly fight are the Americans, and we have enough nukes to deter them, though I suppose we'd need a few more to deter China which doesn't care about it's citizens, so we'd have to hit hit harder.But why would we be fighting China or the USA ? Only if we're sqaundering lives and money on making nationalist nutters feel good about themselves.Ask the citizens of New Orleans how good it is to be in a superpower. Indeed ask the mother of any of the grotesque number of children who die near birth in America.It's at the same level as Malaysia, on average. The inner cities are at near African level.The strength of the nations in the EU is partly due to the perpetual squabbling between them.Compare it with China which never really got it's act together because it's size defended it, ditto Russia.I wonder if a combiation of size and nuclear shield is doing the same to America ?Iraq, New Orleans, bridges to nowhere in Alaska and Creationism speak to me of a country where form is dangerously out of balance with substance.By accident, the EU may have hit a local optimum. The pork barrel that screws US internal policy is vastly smaller, no plausible religious combination can get power, and the French & Germans are being shamed by Britain into reforming their economy. Britain's push for removing human rights is being bogged down in Europe, and the Austrians are on notice to stop putting Nazis in their government. The EU can defend itself, but can't attack any country more powerful than (say) Turkey. Even if it had the power, it's extremely hard to see the nations agreeing on any attack on anyone.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCWe could have three now, if you consider the EU a superpower. After all it has the largest collective GDP and is the world's largest exporter. Now, if only it's member countries could agree on one thing, the RoW might take us more seriously.I think the causality is the other way round.EU nations are rich because we don't do superpower crap. Russia used to do this. It didn't end well.EU goverments are national goverments -- that's why EU countries are rich. Russian goverment was always made as inter-national -- that's reasonwhy Russia is poor. It is still the case -- a lot of key goverment positions are made of people who has no care of most populious ethnic group just becausethey are anybody but russians. I don't want to say that national russian goverment would do better but I think it is neccessary condition to any degree ofcountry success.EU is pure nominal superpower. I wish I would see the schoolbook -- 'EU national history' If something blew up in Spain do people in Germany care? In US people do feel pain for something goes wrong in other places -- they have relatives friends etc. How many Germans have Dutch wives or study in Spain universities?EU is all about euro and French and Dutch made it clear voting against further unification.So we have US and China left for competition as global superpowers. And one of Chinese participants of this forumis clearly mad at US. Well, I would say that 200 grand of help for chinese flood victims really sound offensive. But I wouldnever expect anything else from US because people here are not capable to think about anybody else but themselves.lowtech

> But I would never expect anything else from US because people here are not capable to think about > anybody else but themselvesYou should go sometime to the beaches of Normandy and I think you would change your mind. More recently, Bosnia. Do some homework.

QuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainn> But I would never expect anything else from US because people here are not capable to think about > anybody else but themselvesYou should go sometime to the beaches of Normandy and I think you would change your mind. More recently, Bosnia. Do some homework.Do you want to add Iraq next to Bosnia into 'more recently' list? However I've seen dozen people next to my office in NYC laid down on 57st and 5 ave to stop traffic that day.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCWe could have three now, if you consider the EU a superpower. After all it has the largest collective GDP and is the world's largest exporter. Now, if only it's member countries could agree on one thing, the RoW might take us more seriously.I think the causality is the other way round.EU nations are rich because we don't do superpower crap. Russia used to do this. It didn't end well.How would the people in te EU benefit from being in a superpower ?Any military attack would be utterly destroyed by the French and British, and maybe the Germans would do send them really nasty letters.The only people we might plausibly fight are the Americans, and we have enough nukes to deter them, though I suppose we'd need a few more to deter China which doesn't care about it's citizens, so we'd have to hit hit harder.But why would we be fighting China or the USA ? Only if we're sqaundering lives and money on making nationalist nutters feel good about themselves.Ask the citizens of New Orleans how good it is to be in a superpower. Indeed ask the mother of any of the grotesque number of children who die near birth in America.It's at the same level as Malaysia, on average. The inner cities are at near African level.The strength of the nations in the EU is partly due to the perpetual squabbling between them.Compare it with China which never really got it's act together because it's size defended it, ditto Russia.I wonder if a combiation of size and nuclear shield is doing the same to America ?Iraq, New Orleans, bridges to nowhere in Alaska and Creationism speak to me of a country where form is dangerously out of balance with substance.By accident, the EU may have hit a local optimum. The pork barrel that screws US internal policy is vastly smaller, no plausible religious combination can get power, and the French & Germans are being shamed by Britain into reforming their economy. Britain's push for removing human rights is being bogged down in Europe, and the Austrians are on notice to stop putting Nazis in their government. The EU can defend itself, but can't attack any country more powerful than (say) Turkey. Even if it had the power, it's extremely hard to see the nations agreeing on any attack on anyone.Good answer. You really should write that book you know. You could call it "My life as a quant headhunter" . Serious.

QuoteOriginally posted by: lowtechQuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCWe could have three now, if you consider the EU a superpower. After all it has the largest collective GDP and is the world's largest exporter. Now, if only it's member countries could agree on one thing, the RoW might take us more seriously.I think the causality is the other way round.EU nations are rich because we don't do superpower crap. Russia used to do this. It didn't end well.EU goverments are national goverments -- that's why EU countries are rich. Russian goverment was always made as inter-national -- that's reasonwhy Russia is poor. It is still the case -- a lot of key goverment positions are made of people who has no care of most populious ethnic group just becausethey are anybody but russians. I don't want to say that national russian goverment would do better but I think it is neccessary condition to any degree ofcountry success.EU is pure nominal superpower. I wish I would see the schoolbook -- 'EU national history' If something blew up in Spain do people in Germany care? In US people do feel pain for something goes wrong in other places -- they have relatives friends etc. How many Germans have Dutch wives or study in Spain universities?EU is all about euro and French and Dutch made it clear voting against further unification.So we have US and China left for competition as global superpowers. And one of Chinese participants of this forumis clearly mad at US. Well, I would say that 200 grand of help for chinese flood victims really sound offensive. But I wouldnever expect anything else from US because people here are not capable to think about anybody else but themselves.lowtechOh wow. Another good answer.

If something blew up in Spain do people in Germany care? In US people do feel pain for something goes wrong in other places -- they have relatives friends etc.Good point. If there was a New Orleans scale event, the EU response would make George Bush look the Thunderbirds. But a strength within this is that since they haven't got a useful parent state, EU nations take full responsibility for the whole thing.I've no doubt that if another Tsunami hit Bristol, or a Soviet era nuclear power station in Poland blew, help would be freely given, but in no organised fashion. Ironically a grade one disaster might unify Europe in a way that in the USA it has amplified divisions. A state lives or dies by its ability to protect it's citizens. How many Germans have Dutch wives or study in Spain universities?Looking at CVs, I see a healthy movement of people within the EU. Not enough, but I think steadily increasing.EU is all about euro and French and Dutch made it clear voting against further unification.To be fair, they voted against the constitution, not unification. If American citizens were told that their president was to be chosen, not elected, that they had no rights of any kind if it was "reasonable" for bureaucrats to suspend them, that the head of the Fed was to be chosen on racial grounds, and that the EU by law had to have a big space programme, quite a few would vote against it.They might also be perturbed that the people negotiating "on their behalf" had been denied transaltions of the draft document, and that material differences were found when eventually the French allowed people to see a cut down English version. So we have US and China left for competition as global superpowers.You're assuming that China remains in it's current form. Maybe so. But high speed economic change leads to social and political change. Maybe in 10 years time there will be 5 Chinas.And one of Chinese participants of this forum is clearly mad at US. Well, I would say that 200 grand of help for chinese flood victims really sound offensive.What is the right money ? 10 million, 1000 million ?Britain sent a huge pile of military rations to New Orleans, but I doubt if it was worth more than a million quid. But that might be the better thing to prepare.A >10K death event occurs at least once per year.Altough diverse, they share common needs. Food, drinking water, shelter, and getting people out.If China (or the EU) wanted to be a superpower, it could prepare a rapid relief force. a few heavy cargo planes. Backed by skilled people, with a range of optional rescue equipment.Rather then bombing people to fear you, you shame enemies by helping people better than their governments.A squadron of modern fighters is about a billion dollars capital cost, plus around 100 meg to run per year.You could buy a lot of relief for that.The planes would be decorated in the national flag, and the rescuers have distinctive uniforms. Some would die, which of course will play well in the media. But I wouldnever expect anything else from US because people here are not capable to think about anybody else but themselves.lowtech

DCFC: A squadron of modern fighters is about a billion dollars capital costThat's about 20 right?

> How many Germans have Dutch wives or study in Spain universities?More than you might think?

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeDCFC: A squadron of modern fighters is about a billion dollars capital costThat's about 20 right?Hey, its a United Airlines fighter ?btw: Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's no more money to spend--you used up all of that. You can't start another war because you used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people. Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out. No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished. "Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest and walk away. Like you did with your military service and the oil company and the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or space man? Now I know what you're saying: there's so many other things that you as President could involve yourself in. Please don't. I know, I know. There's a lot left to do. There's a war with Venezuela. Eliminating the sales tax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And Social Security to Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote. But, Sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you govern like Billy Joel drives. You've performed so poorly I'm surprised that you haven't given yourself a medal. You're a catastrophe that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a shitty president, but even he never conceded an entire city to rising water and snakes. On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus, four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could be if you were on the other side. So, yes, God does speak to you. What he is saying is: "Take a hint."--Bill Maher

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: lowtechwell, Lee Witt was at least sucessfull businessman before becoming judgehe ran a small construction company(do the math: clinton, arkansas, crooked land deals,.......a friend with a construction company might come in handy)You surely cannot be claiming that running a small construction company is a qualification to run an emergency management agency ?I'm also curious as to whether anyone can find details of Witt's education, as none of the bios I've seen mention it, and it seems that he was first involved in that small construction company in his early 20's.My point: did he go to law school ?and if not, how exactly was he qualified to be "a county judge in the county that all the clintons come from" ?to answer my own question,he's not listed in the directory at findlaw.com so I assume he became a judge without a law degree

QuoteOriginally posted by: doreillyQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeDCFC: A squadron of modern fighters is about a billion dollars capital costThat's about 20 right?Hey, its a United Airlines fighter ?btw: Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's no more money to spend--you used up all of that. You can't start another war because you used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people. Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out. No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished. "Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest and walk away. Like you did with your military service and the oil company and the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or space man? Now I know what you're saying: there's so many other things that you as President could involve yourself in. Please don't. I know, I know. There's a lot left to do. There's a war with Venezuela. Eliminating the sales tax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And Social Security to Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote. But, Sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you govern like Billy Joel drives. You've performed so poorly I'm surprised that you haven't given yourself a medal. You're a catastrophe that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a shitty president, but even he never conceded an entire city to rising water and snakes. On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus, four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could be if you were on the other side. So, yes, God does speak to you. What he is saying is: "Take a hint."--Bill MaherNormally I'd comment, but this says it all and so eloquently .