QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: INFIDELQuoteOriginally posted by: Geist You can find international newspapers and some magazines and if you know where to look you can probably go to specialist stores that carry English books, but I didn't come across any when I was over there so whenever I had some time to kill I would've been bored to death had I not brought my own stuff to read. Kinokuniya bookshop has an excellent range of English language books occupying much of the 4th or 5th floor (I forget which). Good technical selection, too, as far as I can remember.I'd advise anyone before going to Japan -- particularly Tokyo -- to prepare well: e.g. get to know at least some basic Japanese. You WILL find it oppressive. You WILL get lost in the Tokyo train system, so know how to ask directions. Get a good English language guidebook on Tokyo. You won't be able to read much anywhere else. Get to know how to do some of the basic things before you arrive.Sounds hellish, and only for the very young (i.e., under 25's).It's very tough. On the other hand, there are great personal and cultural rewards: immersed in a culture as opposite to western culture as you can get, you get to know yourself. There are lots of great things I miss about Japan (the onsens, the beauty of their traditional architectural and artistic aesthetics...) and would willingly spend a couple of years there again. It's a love-hate relationship...

QuoteOriginally posted by: INFIDELQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: INFIDELQuoteOriginally posted by: Geist You can find international newspapers and some magazines and if you know where to look you can probably go to specialist stores that carry English books, but I didn't come across any when I was over there so whenever I had some time to kill I would've been bored to death had I not brought my own stuff to read. Kinokuniya bookshop has an excellent range of English language books occupying much of the 4th or 5th floor (I forget which). Good technical selection, too, as far as I can remember.I'd advise anyone before going to Japan -- particularly Tokyo -- to prepare well: e.g. get to know at least some basic Japanese. You WILL find it oppressive. You WILL get lost in the Tokyo train system, so know how to ask directions. Get a good English language guidebook on Tokyo. You won't be able to read much anywhere else. Get to know how to do some of the basic things before you arrive.Sounds hellish, and only for the very young (i.e., under 25's).It's very tough. On the other hand, there are great personal and cultural rewards: immersed in a culture as opposite to western culture as you can get, you get to know yourself. There are lots of great things I miss about Japan (the onsens, the beauty of their traditional architectural and artistic aesthetics...) and would willingly spend a couple of years there again. It's a love-hate relationship... Sounds cool. I like zen.

Geist,I strongly disagree with your post from Dec. 18. It absolutely does not reflect reality in many ways and I am wondering whether you informed us of your experience in Japan sometimes during the 70s. Here some corrections:1) "Tokyo right now appears to have a majority of people who are either sub-par compared to London or New York or have some personal reason to be there"This might be your opinion but I think it absolutely does not reflect reality. In fact, quite a number of the top traders during the past 10-15 years were Japanese or traded out of Tokyo. Just one single example is E. Nakai who heads up Barclays in Tokyo. He was a top trader for Goldman Sachs and was in fact the top trader of Goldman worldwide for 3 consecutive years (if anybody knows more or likes to correct me on the details then please do so). There are numerous other examples. I am not talking about heavy quant modeling here. No question, London and New York are the hubs for quant groups, however, much of the findings and models are very successfully employed and executed upon my traders in Tokyo. The P&L contribution that comes out of Tokyo for most of the international top investment banks is enormous considering the resource allocation (human capital, risk, and others). So, I beg to strongly disagree with you and I believe your short stint in Tokyo did not allow you to really assess the situation.2) Compensation in Tokyo is TOTALLY in line with compensation in London or New York. In fact the packages are often more generous than in London and New York because firms pay more to get some of their top traders to Tokyo (this is in no way a contradiction to my first point and rather supports the notion that quite a few very talented people sit in Tokyo). Another point is that starting salaries for analysts and associate are on an absolutely same level than in London and New York. In fact, firms such as Citigroup have "internationalized" their salary levels for starters and pay the same amount regardless of whether one starts in New York, London, or Tokyo. 3) I am not surprised to hear that you were unsatisfied with housing and apartments that you have seen in Tokyo. You should maybe try to learn the language or have someone local to visit real estate firms to show you apartments. Firms that cater to "expats" understandably charge a bunch more than you would ever pay using local agencies. The quality of apartments is on par with top locations in London or New York. You should not compare locations at London's top addresses with places in East Tokyo. You pay top dollar for top living regardless of whether you live in London, Tokyo, or New York as well as many other cities. 4) You can find more foreign books/media/newspapers in Tokyo than in many other cities of the world. Name what you are looking for and I tell you where you can find it in Tokyo. In addition, you have access to many international TV channels through cable or satellite TV. So, I do not really follow your critical remarks here either...I mean, lets be honest here for a second: Its hard to work anywhere in the world in finance if you don’t speak the local language. Maybe we have all become too spoiled with English that we now expect the rest of the world to speak it and conduct business in it. Even as the most talented trader in Tokyo it is invaluable to speak Japanese to the sales force and other clients. How easy do you think it would be for someone to work in London or New York at a top firm without speaking sufficiently well English? You are right, one should either have a very valid reason to go and work in Japan as foreigner or stay away. But I think we should be a bit more realistic about the REAL situation. I speak as one who has lived in Tokyo for quite a while and who will work there again from next year as trader.

QuoteOriginally posted by: bbmat4) You can find more foreign books/media/newspapers in Tokyo than in many other cities of the world.Not quite apropos bbmat's point, but the Japanese are voracious readers. I saw a statistic a few years ago that since the 1850s (when Japan opened up to the world), more books have been translated into Japanese than into any other language. There's plenty of English language material around -- at least 3 orders of magnitude more of "foreign language" material in Tokyo than where I live now (I'm not kidding!) -- you just need to know where to look.Japan is a fascinating place!

QuoteOriginally posted by: bbmatGeist,I strongly disagree with your post from Dec. 18. It absolutely does not reflect reality in many ways and I am wondering whether you informed us of your experience in Japan sometimes during the 70s. Here some corrections:1) "Tokyo right now appears to have a majority of people who are either sub-par compared to London or New York or have some personal reason to be there"This might be your opinion but I think it absolutely does not reflect reality. In fact, quite a number of the top traders during the past 10-15 years were Japanese or traded out of Tokyo. Just one single example is E. Nakai who heads up Barclays in Tokyo. He was a top trader for Goldman Sachs and was in fact the top trader of Goldman worldwide for 3 consecutive years (if anybody knows more or likes to correct me on the details then please do so). There are numerous other examples. I am not talking about heavy quant modeling here. No question, London and New York are the hubs for quant groups, however, much of the findings and models are very successfully employed and executed upon my traders in Tokyo. The P&L contribution that comes out of Tokyo for most of the international top investment banks is enormous considering the resource allocation (human capital, risk, and others). So, I beg to strongly disagree with you and I believe your short stint in Tokyo did not allow you to really assess the situation.2) Compensation in Tokyo is TOTALLY in line with compensation in London or New York. In fact the packages are often more generous than in London and New York because firms pay more to get some of their top traders to Tokyo (this is in no way a contradiction to my first point and rather supports the notion that quite a few very talented people sit in Tokyo). Another point is that starting salaries for analysts and associate are on an absolutely same level than in London and New York. In fact, firms such as Citigroup have "internationalized" their salary levels for starters and pay the same amount regardless of whether one starts in New York, London, or Tokyo. 3) I am not surprised to hear that you were unsatisfied with housing and apartments that you have seen in Tokyo. You should maybe try to learn the language or have someone local to visit real estate firms to show you apartments. Firms that cater to "expats" understandably charge a bunch more than you would ever pay using local agencies. The quality of apartments is on par with top locations in London or New York. You should not compare locations at London's top addresses with places in East Tokyo. You pay top dollar for top living regardless of whether you live in London, Tokyo, or New York as well as many other cities. 4) You can find more foreign books/media/newspapers in Tokyo than in many other cities of the world. Name what you are looking for and I tell you where you can find it in Tokyo. In addition, you have access to many international TV channels through cable or satellite TV. So, I do not really follow your critical remarks here either...I mean, lets be honest here for a second: Its hard to work anywhere in the world in finance if you don’t speak the local language. Maybe we have all become too spoiled with English that we now expect the rest of the world to speak it and conduct business in it. Even as the most talented trader in Tokyo it is invaluable to speak Japanese to the sales force and other clients. How easy do you think it would be for someone to work in London or New York at a top firm without speaking sufficiently well English? You are right, one should either have a very valid reason to go and work in Japan as foreigner or stay away. But I think we should be a bit more realistic about the REAL situation. I speak as one who has lived in Tokyo for quite a while and who will work there again from next year as trader.1) Let me try and rephrase my statement. I did not mean to convey that there are no great traders in Tokyo. All I am saying is that I have met few gaijin who have purposely moved over there and become successful. There's a big difference. I am in no way implying that the locals are not as good as their US or London colleagues; I've seen big swingers in Tokyo as well. The gist of my point is that while NY and London are centers of attraction for foreign talent, I don't perceive Tokyo, while full of really smart people, to be as attractive for a non-Japanese speaking foreigner from a career point of view. (That is, unless there is a very specific reason to be there, which for me there isn't). 2) Salaries are not on the same level at my firm and while I have no reason to doubt the validity of your claim the fact that it's different over at my company leads me to think that at the very least the market isn't as homogeneous as you may believe. I agree that expat packages can be significant, but to my mind those have no value if they don't come with a guarantee.3) I did actually go around with a local firm and they showed me comparable things to the expat agency. The difference in price was maybe 5% and the hassle of not being to communicate with the local firm was significant. Maybe that's a function of the local agency jacking up their prices because I'm not a local, maybe it's a fluke, but that's the information I've got to go on. I agree that one cannot expect to come over to Asia, live in expat accommodation and not pay more than a local would. I also agree that the burden is on the foreigner to learn Japanese and not on Japan to teach everyone English. The point is that I don't feel I have a choice between local and expat accomodation because I have no way of communicating with a Japanese landlord should anything go wrong, I can't read any of the necessary dosumentation and do none of the admin, I need to be close to international supermarkets etc etc. It did not ask to be moved to Tokyo, so the fact that I am not going to be able to communicate in Japanese is a given and should be seen as a cost by the firm, which they will factor into their decision to send me there. That's not to say I'm not going to try my darndest to learn the language, but the fact of the matter is that that's not going to happen in the first 6 months.4) You are undoubtedly right, but your local newsstand doesn't carry foreign magazines, whereas in Hong Kong, Singapore and in many places in Europe/Middle East they do. Is that going to make or break the deal? No, but it's just one of these small but painful factors to consider. They're not critical remarks either, they're just remarks.

QuoteOriginally posted by: bbmatGeist,I strongly disagree with your post from Dec. 18. It absolutely does not reflect reality in many ways and I am wondering whether you informed us of your experience in Japan sometimes during the 70s. Here some corrections:(snip)I mean, lets be honest here for a second: Its hard to work anywhere in the world in finance if you don’t speak the local language. Maybe we have all become too spoiled with English that we now expect the rest of the world to speak it and conduct business in it. Even as the most talented trader in Tokyo it is invaluable to speak Japanese to the sales force and other clients. How easy do you think it would be for someone to work in London or New York at a top firm without speaking sufficiently well English? You are right, one should either have a very valid reason to go and work in Japan as foreigner or stay away. But I think we should be a bit more realistic about the REAL situation. I speak as one who has lived in Tokyo for quite a while and who will work there again from next year as trader.Agree with all your points here, especially 2 and 3.The fact is, for someone who doesn't speak japanese, there needs to be some kind of compensation to get them to go to Japan, and an on-par salary is not enough in this case.Btw, where are you going to work next year ?

Be careful if you grope in Japan!