QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunLooks likes no. 25% counted and 60% is no.Brill to Tsipras: You're either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid.

how the no's and yes's will be counted

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunLooks likes no. 25% counted and 60% is no."With 63 per cent of votes counted, the No camp was officially projected to win 61.3 per cent and was leading in every region of the country." Greece heads for decisive "No" vote - FT July 58:13 BST

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunQuoteOriginally posted by: ExSanQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunJust had a great dinner at a Greek restaurant.probably the last time you doAbout a year ago I had dinner in the same Greek restaurant (but those previous owners went bankrupt). When I wanted to pay they told me that I could get a 10% discount if I paid with cash instead of the bank card. It made me laugh because we don't do things like that, we have rules and tax!Kind of like a mini version of what's going on now.This new restaurant is modern and flourishing, 3x more people work there now, a busy place, and no strange cash proposals.So you pick on some small restaurant for cheating on taxes while it's OK when Amazon, Microsoft or Apple do that on an incomparably larger scale? Besides, I'd rather Greece stay Greek than become as the Dutch like it.

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunQuoteOriginally posted by: ExSanQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunJust had a great dinner at a Greek restaurant.probably the last time you doAbout a year ago I had dinner in the same Greek restaurant (but those previous owners went bankrupt). When I wanted to pay they told me that I could get a 10% discount if I paid with cash instead of the bank card. It made me laugh because we don't do things like that, we have rules and tax!Kind of like a mini version of what's going on now.This new restaurant is modern and flourishing, 3x more people work there now, a busy place, and no strange cash proposals.So you pick on some small restaurant for cheating on taxes while it's OK when Amazon, Microsoft or Apple do that on an incomparably larger scale? Besides, I'd rather Greece stay Greek than become as the Dutch like it.But it would be better for the Greeks if they were more like the Dutch...

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlanQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunLooks likes no. 25% counted and 60% is no.Brill to Tsipras: You're either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid.I would choose B. He is just a wanker, without ethics and sense of what is going on. No connection with reality, no interest outside political cost. I am just watching him on tv.... he claims that this referendum-parody was about the question if the people want more austerity, not if people want to stay in eurozone or not. Apart from the fact that such a question on fiscal issues is incompatible to our constitution, thus its validity is quite questionable legally, he wasted scarce public funds to set up this parody, closed banks with huge damage to the economy, if I were him I would worry why only 60% and not 100% of people answered yes.

QuoteOriginally posted by: daveangelBut it would be better for the Greeks if they were more like the Dutch...Having lived in Holland for some time, I concure by 80%. Of course voters of No would call me names and shoot me threats for this... but who gives a shag?

Two things I am thinking about:1) The very quick decision on the part of the Greek court (Council of State - highest admin court) that the referendum was legal, when many knowledgable people have stated that referenda on fiscal matters are not. There was barely time for any deliberation, among other problems here, including the framing of the actual ballot language.Could this be appealed and the results of the vote called into question? It has made its mark, obviously, but might have been unconstitutional.2) There may not be a clear way for any country, or even a group of countries, to expel another from the EZ and certainly not from the EU. The Treaties may not have made provisions for a quasi-voluntary or involuntary exit.This could be tied up with lawyers on both fronts for a very long time.On 1: just a short article the day of the approval from USA Today for some of the details."Greece's highest administrative court ruled Friday that the nation's critical bailout referendum is constitutional, clearing the way for Sunday's vote. The Council of State rejected an appeal by two citizens asking for Greece's critical referendum on austerity to be ruled unconstitutional. Court president Nikos Sakellariou said Friday "the referendum will proceed normally." The reasoning behind the decision was expected to be issued later in the day."Also, is the Council of State really the final word on this? In the U.S., something like this might start at a lower level, but could wind up at the Supreme Court on certain types of appeals.As an example from here, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed by Congress in 2010. It has been the subject of two cases brought before the SC:NIFB V Sebelius, which was heard and ruled on in 2012 (upholding the Act) and King V Burwell, where the court has just ruled in favor of subsidies (June 25, 2015). If the court had ruled against it in the first instance, that would have been the end though - the buck stops there.

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunOne possible outcome is a dual currency country, people get their pension and buy groceries in local currency but have a mortgage in euros.Some thoughts on the currency side here: Printing the Drachma - Bloomberg - July 4.Well, very busy now, but have a pleasant evening Europe and good luck to the Greeks, especially Anthis and his family.If it stays relatively calm socially over the next few months, I may bring some tourist dollars in the fall. Every little bit helps.

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarTwo things I am thinking about:1) The very quick decision on the part of the Greek court (Council of State - highest admin court) that the referendum was legal, when many knowledgable people have stated that referenda on fiscal matters are not. There was barely time for any deliberation, among other problems here, including the framing of the actual ballot language.Could this be appealed and the results of the vote called into question? It has made its mark, obviously, but might have been unconstitutional.2) There may not be a clear way for any country, or even a group of countries, to expel another from the EZ and certainly not from the EU. The Treaties may not have made provisions for a quasi-voluntary or involuntary exit.This could be tied up with lawyers on both fronts for a very long time.On 1: just a short article the day of the approval from USA Today for some of the details."Greece's highest administrative court ruled Friday that the nation's critical bailout referendum is constitutional, clearing the way for Sunday's vote. The Council of State rejected an appeal by two citizens asking for Greece's critical referendum on austerity to be ruled unconstitutional. Court president Nikos Sakellariou said Friday "the referendum will proceed normally." The reasoning behind the decision was expected to be issued later in the day."Also, is the Council of State really the final word on this? In the U.S., something like this might start at a lower level, but could wind up at the Supreme Court on certain types of appeals.As an example from here, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed by Congress in 2010. It has been the subject of two cases brought before the SC:NIFB V Sebelius, which was heard and ruled on in 2012 (upholding the Act) and King V Burwell, where the court has just ruled in favor of subsidies (June 25, 2015). If the court had ruled against it in the first instance, that would have been the end though - the buck stops there.I am not a lawyer, but when tax and business cases take years to be ruled, its at least weird that the Supreme Court made a decision within days for this referendum. Apart from this, I cant see any way this referendum parody commits the leaders of other member states to change their stance. They are mandated by their own nations. Commits only Tsipras who organized all this, sort of trapping himself.No, there is no foreseen way to expel a country from eurozone, and I ve also heard that even if a country requests to leave eurozone, the other member states need to approve on this. On the other hand, since local banks depend financially from ECB to operate, ECB can create the conditions to beg for leaving eurozone and print new currency.

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunOne possible outcome is a dual currency country, people get their pension and buy groceries in local currency but have a mortgage in euros.In such a case nobody would want to be paid in local currency and nobody would like to hold this currency. Soon it will worth less than toilet paper.

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunQuoteOriginally posted by: ExSanQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunJust had a great dinner at a Greek restaurant.probably the last time you doAbout a year ago I had dinner in the same Greek restaurant (but those previous owners went bankrupt). When I wanted to pay they told me that I could get a 10% discount if I paid with cash instead of the bank card. It made me laugh because we don't do things like that, we have rules and tax!Kind of like a mini version of what's going on now.This new restaurant is modern and flourishing, 3x more people work there now, a busy place, and no strange cash proposals.So you pick on some small restaurant for cheating on taxes while it's OK when Amazon, Microsoft or Apple do that on an incomparably larger scale? Besides, I'd rather Greece stay Greek than become as the Dutch like it.We have a word for it in Dutch: betweter Don't get me started. In English, it is called pontification which I'm partial to when opportunity arises.Good that Greece did not cave in. That guy is probably just trying to feed his family.

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulSounds like there is going to be a deal. Back to boring.Pyour expectations went too far