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Can any one share working experience here? As far as I know, the true quantitative work like modelling usually requires a PhD level. What can a MFE graduate do beside implementing the models? If one spends most time writing programs to implement others' model every day, this job seems boring and loses the point of studying MFE. What do you guys think?

visit the individual websites of the numerous MFE/QFIN/FINMATH programs, many show the positions that their graduates are placed in

Well, to be honest, unless you have previous PhD, the chance that you shall be a core quant after graduating from the MFE is very less. Most likely if you know Matlab, SAS and some internship, then you can do some entry level quant work. Now, it depends on how you prove yourself. If you seek a job with the big names like GS, Morgan stanley, citi in their research group even as analyst, you have a bright future. Else, its a bit of struggle. On the contrary, a Phd (finance) will find it lot more easier to find a job in the research teams but then you loose the present value of 4-years pay.

QuoteOriginally posted by: vbprogrammerWell, to be honest, unless you have previous PhD, the chance that you shall be a core quant after graduating from the MFE is very less. Most likely if you know Matlab, SAS and some internship, then you can do some entry level quant work. Now, it depends on how you prove yourself. If you seek a job with the big names like GS, Morgan stanley, citi in their research group even as analyst, you have a bright future. Else, its a bit of struggle. On the contrary, a Phd (finance) will find it lot more easier to find a job in the research teams but then you loose the present value of 4-years pay.Could any one pls. elaborate the difference between "core quant" and "entry level quant work"? give work scope/details and task examples. thx.How about remuneration comparison (at the starting point of career and in long term) between the "entry level quant work" (without PhD)and other major financial disciplines which require no PhD? Seems that there will be a ceiling in the quant path (and salary) for the former as he has no PhD.

Could any one pls. elaborate the difference between "core quant" and "entry level quant work"? give work scope/details and task examples. thx.How about remuneration comparison (at the starting point of career and in long term) between the "entry level quant work" (without PhD)and other major financial disciplines which require no PhD? Seems that there will be a ceiling in the quant path (and salary) for the former as he has no PhD.In the last 2 odd years, I spoke with as many quants as I could. They varied from Phd's in Finance/Mathematics/Physics followed by 5 odd years in academia teaching before moving to the industrial life (who usually do the core quant work). Then I had my interaction with the typical MBA's/Masters level odd with lots of experience , people who understand quant work (from high level). I figured its lot more easier to find job with the second types after finishing an MFE (given that you are adding value as a quant). You could be doing anything from running simulations, stress testing, optimization, etc in Matlab/SAS or say C++. As far as how much you can really bring in new ideas/model could be fairly limited at the beginning mainly because of the lack of exposure to theory and experience in finance. Hence, the second group of work requires you to have market insight -- people who prefer that a quant has a CFA kind of designation. Now back about the the core quant job:You could and many do ,make it to the first kinds (that is you need to be exceptional) where you will learn a lot of ideas from others and also be expected to know lot of quantitative tools (name it -- maximum likelihood, kalman filters, bayesian stat, etc etc). If you have a PhD you tend to know a lot of these tools and so find it easier to get into such groups and be exposed to some of the state-of-art models. At least the head of the algorithmics trading group in Fidelity (who had PhD in Mech. Engg from MIT) calls his group's work as "rocket-science". Something that can win his group mates a Nobel prize ( an overstatement, if you ask me). If you don;t have a Phd but a Masters in Applied Math/Stat from a top school and you did not want to finish Phd. Then you joined the MFE kinds. Then also you have a higher chance of making it such group of quants. I am just summrizing what I have seen in different groups. I personally do have undergraduate in engineering from a reputed school with Masters in Fin.Maths. The second group of people find me more quantitave while the first kinds tell me am somewhat short handed. The second kinds tell me I need more market insight while the first find my knowledge in Finance kind of okay.I would say there are more Masters in Fin. Maths who are like me. I am just curious myself to see how my career progresses. But, at this statge I can just tell this much.

Could any one pls. elaborate the difference between "core quant" and "entry level quant work"? give work scope/details and task examples. thx.How about remuneration comparison (at the starting point of career and in long term) between the "entry level quant work" (without PhD)and other major financial disciplines which require no PhD? Seems that there will be a ceiling in the quant path (and salary) for the former as he has no PhD.In the last 2 odd years, I spoke with as many quants as I could. They varied from Phd's in Finance/Mathematics/Physics followed by 5 odd years in academia teaching before moving to the industrial life (who usually do the core quant work). Then I had my interaction with the typical MBA's/Masters level odd with lots of experience , people who understand quant work (from high level). I figured its lot more easier to find job with the second types after finishing an MFE (given that you are adding value as a quant). You could be doing anything from running simulations, stress testing, optimization, etc in Matlab/SAS or say C++. As far as how much you can really bring in new ideas/model could be fairly limited at the beginning mainly because of the lack of exposure to theory and experience in finance. Hence, the second group of work requires you to have market insight -- people who prefer that a quant has a CFA kind of designation. Now back about the the core quant job:You could and many do ,make it to the first kinds (that is you need to be exceptional) where you will learn a lot of ideas from others and also be expected to know lot of quantitative tools (name it -- maximum likelihood, kalman filters, bayesian stat, etc etc). If you have a PhD you tend to know a lot of these tools and so find it easier to get into such groups and be exposed to some of the state-of-art models. At least the head of the algorithmics trading group in Fidelity (who had PhD in Mech. Engg from MIT) calls his group's work as "rocket-science". Something that can win his group mates a Nobel prize ( an overstatement, if you ask me). If you don;t have a Phd but a Masters in Applied Math/Stat from a top school and you did not want to finish Phd. Then you joined the MFE kinds. Then also you have a higher chance of making it such group of quants. I am just summrizing what I have seen in different groups. I personally do have undergraduate in engineering from a reputed school with Masters in Fin.Maths. The second group of people find me more quantitave while the first kinds tell me am somewhat short handed. The second kinds tell me I need more market insight while the first find my knowledge in Finance kind of okay.I would say there are more Masters in Fin. Maths who are like me. I am just curious myself to see how my career progresses. But, at this statge I can just tell this much.

@vbrogrammer : very informative and insightful post dude, probably u left out the compensation part (was it deliberate

PhDs and MFEs can pretty much do most of the same types of jobs. The high end PhD modelling jobs are out of reach for MFEs. On the other hand, MFEs have broader spectrum of jobs to go for. MFE could e.g. work in sales....and would probably (depending on interpersonal skills) be much better suited than an MBA (especially in more technical product areas, fixed income, derivatives, etc). PhDs would be out of place here.In terms of salary...it depends on the job. If MFE goes into trading and survives he can pull in a lot of dough. I think the mean is pretty much the same for both....with high end PHD jobs perhaps being better paid (but they are also rare). There are a lot of PHDs in lower paid areas such as model validation, back office risk management, etc where there is no or little upside.