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trackstar
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 5:51 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PowerpuffQuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarSome background resources:Black Wednesday - wikion Breaking the Bank of EnglandGeorge Soros - WikiI have to run, but maybe more later. More what? Homework? TTFNLOL!I have made it a contest. A very fancy dinner awaits some one who is quite clever and has a good work ethic.
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 5:56 pm

BTW - yes, I am a strong proponent of home work and lots of essay writing.Young people tend to lack self-discipline these days and idle hands are the Devil's Plaything. ***More homework:After Dubai, will Greece be Next?What Greece should do nowWhere to Imply the Odds of a Country Leaving a Currency Union Bear Rally or Something More?US focusAll in the General Forum and also:Why the Greece Situation is Bad for the Euroin the Trading Forum
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:09 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteMaking people prove they can repay favors the rich.Really? I thought it meant 'not living above your means'.In a world of well-intentioned safety & environmental regulations that increase the costs of fuel, electricity, transportation, foods, and consumer goods, the poor are forced to live above their means. The salary from the subminimum-wage job from the EU or US (i.e, one well below the so-called poverty line) would put one in the upper middle class in most places in China, India, etc.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:12 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: frenchXIt's more than a "not a good idea" it's a "fucking bad idea made by retarded guys who believed that German economy is the same than greek one or Lituanian one.." Eurozone and how it was defined was a STUPID idea .Exactly! Monetary union without political union only works in the short-term and in good economic conditions. Without adequate political mechanisms to maintain economic, fiscal, and regulatory convergence, the partially unified states will diverge until the union shatters.
 
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traderjoe1976
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4Alpha The salary from the subminimum-wage job from the EU or US (i.e, one well below the so-called poverty line) would put one in the upper middle class in most places in China, India, etc.Try to offer any of the Chinese MBAs from top 10 B-school job in USA or Europe and see if you can get anyone to accept the position.This is the 21st century. You may be totally shocked at the magnitude of shift in the Global economy which is going to occur. 15 years from now, China GDP surpasses USA GDP. By 2040:1. China2. India = USA3. EU (combined) distant fourth You need to face the facts. USA and EU are primarily filled with old, retired people. That is why these forums are very active.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarI was about to ask a similar question, but I would put it this way:Never mind exactly how it would work, but if EU countries were given a chance to opt out of the euro and/or opt out of the Union completely, which would do so?That's actually unlikely under the current scheme although I could see the richer nations bailing. As long as Greece et al think they can get a bailout or cheap capital, they will stay in the EU. The current scheme is entirely toothless. The Brussels bureaucrats and Euro-press can cluck about egregious deficit spending by almost all of the EU nations, but they are powerless to stop it.What's really needed is a referendum process for kicking mis-behaving nations out of the union. Would the Germans vote to evict Greece from the EU? That's the question!
 
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:36 pm

LOL!What you are proposing would be very messy and probably unconstitutional, though individual country cases could take years to decide.I will have to look and see which court(s) could even hear a challenge from one country against the citizens of another country who voted to have them Ex-EU-minated.
 
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:45 pm

About 150 years ago a group of rogue states tried to secede from the United States voluntarily and you know what kind of carnage ensued then.Although that's all Gone with the Wind now, Breaking up is hard to do!
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:46 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4Alpha The salary from the subminimum-wage job from the EU or US (i.e, one well below the so-called poverty line) would put one in the upper middle class in most places in China, India, etc.Try to offer any of the Chinese MBAs from top 10 B-school job in USA or Europe and see if you can get anyone to accept the position.This is the 21st century. You may be totally shocked at the magnitude of shift in the Global economy which is going to occur. 15 years from now, China GDP surpasses USA GDP. By 2040:1. China2. India = USA3. EU (combined) distant fourth You need to face the facts. USA and EU are primarily filled with old, retired people. That is why these forums are very active.Indeed! You raise some very good points although China GDP needs to be at least 2X to 3X that of the US for China to reach US and EU levels of wealth.Or, perhaps I should say that China will bail everyone out by purchasing US and EU sovereign junks bonds to maintain China's weak Yuan policy.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarLOL!What you are proposing would be very messy and probably unconstitutional, though individual country cases could take years to decide.I will have to look and see which court(s) could even hear a challenge from one country against the citizens of another country who voted to have them Ex-EU-minated. My vague understanding is that leaving the EU is unconstitutional. It's like the Hotel California -- you can never leave.
 
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 7:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarLOL!What you are proposing would be very messy and probably unconstitutional, though individual country cases could take years to decide.I will have to look and see which court(s) could even hear a challenge from one country against the citizens of another country who voted to have them Ex-EU-minated. My vague understanding is that leaving the EU is unconstitutional. It's like the Hotel California -- you can never leave.That is my understanding too, but I have the Treaty in my library and will have a look when I get home.Driving now!
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 8:11 pm

Been a long time since I read this - love all the language about the acquis communautaire.One section to look at is Article 104c under Title VI Economic and Monetary policy.Starting with the phrase, "1. Member states shall avoid excessive government deficits."This section contains 14 points and then moves on to Chapter 2 Monetary policy and begins with Article 105, ending with Article 109.Can post links from EU site later or maybe we can have a volunteer from the audience...
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 8:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarOne section to look at is Article 104c under Title VI Economic and Monetary policy.Starting with the phrase, "1. Member states shall avoid excessive government deficits."Members shall avoid excessive government deficits or what?
 
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trackstar
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 8:33 pm

You can also look at the Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure, which is very short - only four Article spanning barely two pages. (lol).Provides for reporting planned and actual deficits to the European Commission and notes that "The statistical data to be used for the application of this Protocol shall be provided by the Commission."So reading through all of this, in summary there is a clear power under the TEU to make reports, hold meetings, compile statistical data, make public announcements, and issue warnings to errant Members States.There is no power specified or granted to throw the buggers out.
 
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exCBOE
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 8:35 pm

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