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ElysianEagle
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 7:25 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

i currently work in risk IT at an IB here in NYC. i'm not a quant developer but do work on risk systems and the latest project has had me writing the core code for a rather large, firmwide project involving data virtualization and caching. basically i'm a pure dev, just happen to be doing it at an IB right now.an opportunity has presented itself wherein the bank would move me to wroclaw, poland on a 2 yr assignment in which i'd be tasked with being the technical lead there and also building out the team. at this point in time they're not sure if they want me as the tech lead with another person doing more of the admin/managerial work, or if they want me to do both the tech+management leadership. this would be significantly determined by my pitch to my superiors on monday. once there, i would know by far the most of anyone about the systems in use at the bank which is what makes me a strong candidate.my question is, is leaving NYC to go to poland for a couple yrs a good idea? how would it look on my resume? when i come back (and yes, i do intend on coming back), would my prospects be diminished in the job market here? currently i'm just a regular dev, no great title attached. by taking on this role in poland i'd be promoted and would of course get to put a much more significant title on my resume.comp-wise they'd be paying me what's competitive locally, which means in absolute dollars i'd be making lesser, but because of the lower cost of living i'd still be saving more and thus coming out ahead.other concerns are mainly lifestyle related. i really do love NYC, it's an incredible city and i'd definitely miss it. i don't speak a word of polish and while i'm not old (currently 28), im not a college kid either and would have to start from scratch making friends and such. on the plus side i'd get to do a good bit of traveling around europe.
Last edited by ElysianEagle on July 6th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cuchulainn
Posts: 18491
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Try it and see how it goes.
They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care; They pursued it with forks and hope; They threatened its life with a railway-share; They charmed it with smiles and soap.

DevonFangs
Posts: 0
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 1:49 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Eh, not trivial. I wouldn't do it, because I've already tried to work not in a big financial centre and I know the feeling of being sort of "cast away", which I assure is rather unpleasant. Two years is not much, though, and it could turn out to be a very positive parenthesis, and you might even come back as a manager. Maybe. You probably want to make sure you will really be able to get an internal transfer back in two years, if you want it.I hear there's a lot of financial regulation in Poland.

lexington
Posts: 0
Joined: November 16th, 2008, 5:04 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Is it in their Center of Excellence? Did they tell you that it is a promotion because they are moving you to a Center of Excellence?After two years you will move further east.
Last edited by lexington on July 6th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ElysianEagle
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 7:25 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

QuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonIs it in their Center of Excellence? Did they tell you that it is a promotion because they are moving you to a Center of Excellence?After two years you will move further east.hi,it's not a center of excellence, it's just a very new team and they need someone familiar enough with the systems currently in place to help bring the newbies up to speed quickly. that's basically my biggest selling point, my familiarity with the existing technologies in use and the code base.

DominicConnor
Posts: 41
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Firstly, have you accounted for the fact that in any foreign city, even one where you spoke the language you cannot live as efficiently as locals ?The language gap makes that cost difference larger, also get in writing what the healthcare, insurance and other parts of your package are, these are not to be assumed. Also, are you sure the pay really is "competitive locally" ? this may be true, but it is also an industry standard lie, I'm a headhunter and I haven't a clue what the going rate is for people like you in Poland, but even though I don't know a) the number they are quoting, b) the going rate, c) what precisely your skills are I will bet real money HR are lying to you about the going rate, it's their job to lie, they will only tell the truth on pay by accident.Also there will be lies about your return to NYC, these are inevitable and of the form "you'll come back to a good position", "we won't forget you", "this is a good career move within the bank", when in fact you will be forgotten and not only will the person making these promises "forget", good odds they won't be in the same job when you come back.The phrases you will hear in 2 years will be (word for word) "you have to be realistic", "times have changed" and "that's not our policy".That means you must evaluate this job solely on it's own merit, assuming that you will need to find another job in 2 years, treating the case of your firm acting honourably as an unexpected bonus.Assuming the job title isn't a cynical lie (again get his in writing) and be aware that "we will do this next cycle " is another industry standard lie, since your options once you moved will decrease allowing them to say "sorry it didn't get approved by X", where X is someone whose existence wasn't mentioned when you were offered, let alone that he would have a veto.Yes, it is a good way to see Europe, flights are pretty cheap these days and the step up to manager is worth having, but it will not be worth quite as much as if it were in NYC.I sound a bit negative here, when in fact I see this as a positive thing, my reason is that banks routinely shaft people when assigned overseas to a level that seems almost malicious.

ElysianEagle
Topic Author
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Joined: February 7th, 2012, 7:25 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

hi dominic, thanks for the valuable input. there are a couple other concerns that i haven't stated here because i think they're best left out of a public forum. do you mind if i send you a quick direct message? i'd really appreciate your advice.thanks again!

liam
Posts: 4
Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

You could write a novel on the expressions HR use when they shaft you. I always remember being told that HR are only good one thing once you're hired - getting rid of you.

DominicConnor
Posts: 41
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

That's why firms have HR departments, to shaft people efficiently requires professionals.Fact is that shafting staff is a legally tricky operation so you want people who will make sure the process is done properly.The average effect of having HR do the shafting is that the shaftee is kicked about less than if his line manager did it.That's because many people really don't like firing guys they've worked with/drunk with etc and so try to convince themselves that the target "deserves" it in some sense.From that it is a small step to believing that the shaftee is a bad person and that causes the shafting manager to do more than is necessary to them.That's not just firing people, relocation has transformed from a chance to see new places to a nasty hit in the wallet.

Gamal
Posts: 1119
Joined: February 26th, 2004, 8:41 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

QuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEaglean opportunity has presented itself wherein the bank would move me to wroclaw, poland on a 2 yr assignment in which i'd be tasked with being the technical lead there and also building out the team. (...)my question is, is leaving NYC to go to poland for a couple yrs a good idea? how would it look on my resume? It depends what you want to do in the future. If you want to type code in the rest of your life - stay in NYC. If you're interested in getting promoted - take it. I suppose it will be your first experience in managing people?
Last edited by Gamal on July 9th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ElysianEagle
Topic Author
Posts: 0
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 7:25 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalQuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEaglean opportunity has presented itself wherein the bank would move me to wroclaw, poland on a 2 yr assignment in which i'd be tasked with being the technical lead there and also building out the team. (...)my question is, is leaving NYC to go to poland for a couple yrs a good idea? how would it look on my resume? It depends what you want to do in the future. If you want to type code in the rest of your life - stay in NYC. If you're interested in getting promoted - take it. I suppose it will be your first experience in managing people?hi,yes, it's my first time managing people but i still want to remain hands on.

liam
Posts: 4
Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

"From that it is a small step to believing that the shaftee is a bad person and that causes the shafting manager to do more than is necessary to them."Always worth it for the shaftee to know they are not a bad person, or even bad at their job when this happens. In theory at least, dismissal for gross misconduct is the only job loss to really worry about.Also worth mentioning to take a note of everything said in meetings with line managers (and comparing with written appraisals) whenever you get a sniff of trouble afoot. I just found out about a shaftee who got compensation of 3 years pay thanks to HR not following correct procedures (and thanks to him closely taking notes and checking with a lawyer).

katastrofa
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Joined: August 16th, 2007, 5:36 am
Location: Alpha Centauri

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Wroclaw is a nice city, but a bit provincial. On the plus side, it's quite close to Germany, so it's not at the end of the world. Many people speak decent English. Private dentists in Poland tend to be quite good. [Stupid remarks removed, apologies to anyone offended.]
Last edited by katastrofa on July 24th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mynetself
Posts: 0
Joined: March 27th, 2010, 6:40 pm

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

Quotecomp-wise they'd be paying me what's competitive locally, which means in absolute dollars i'd be making lesser, but because of the lower cost of living i'd still be saving more and thus coming out ahead.Wikipedia informs me that the average (gross) salary in Poland is $1290/month, i.e.$15500 per year. And another Google search reveals the median disposable income after tax in Wroclaw at $820 per month. The costs of living stand at 58% of NYC. ( http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ci ... ty=Wroclaw ) So a "competitive salary locally" might easily be one with, say,$1200 disposable salary per month (after tax). Are you sure you're gonna come ahead in sheer monetary terms? Sure the financial aspect is not all yo want to consider, but do your homework instead of being delusional the you would "come out ahead". I think some hard numbers would make your decision easier.

farmer
Posts: 43
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

### need some career advice - from NYC to Poland?

QuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEaglemy question is, is leaving NYC to go to poland for a couple yrs a good idea?Is Barack Obama President of Poland? Then get your ass to Warsaw.