I was going to place this in Off Topic but this is very relevant to how absurd the programming and by extension other parts of quant interview processes are:http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/1/ ... oteImagine if you will that car rental agencies rented cars like programmers are hired at many software companies...Agency : So sorry you had to wait in the reception area for an hour. Nobody knew you were coming to today. I finally found 8 people to interview before we can rent you a car. If we like you you may have to come in for another round of interviews tomorrow because our manager isn't in today. I didn't have a chance to read your application, so I'll just start with a question. What car do you drive today?Applicant : I drive a 2008 Subaru.Agency : That's a shame. We don't have a Subaru to rent you.Applicant : That's OK. Any car will do.Agency : No, we can only take on clients who know how to drive the cars we stock. We find it's safer that way. There are so many little differences between cars, we just don't want to take a chance.Applicant : I have a drivers license. I know how to drive. I've been driving all kinds of cars for 15 years, I am sure I can adapt. Agency : We appreciate your position, but we can only take exact matches. Otherwise, how could we ever know if you could drive one of our cars?Applicant : Oookay. I've driven a Taurus before. You probably rent those, don't you?Agency : Indeed we do. What year did you drive?Applicant : It was 2009...but I don't see how that ma...Agency : Oh sorry, we use the 2012 model. We can't possibly let you drive a later model.Applicant : But, but they aren't that different. Surely if I can drive a 2009 I can drive a 2012?Agency : Sorry, sir. Our requirements clearly spell out that you must be able to drive a 2012 model. Applicant : I've driven a 2010 Escort. Do you rent those? Agency : Ah, excellent, you are in luck. We have one in stock.Applicant : Great. Can I rent it?Agency : No, no, no. We have to go through our structured interview process now. I'll go try and find the first person.Interviewer#1 : Sorry I was late, I was in a meeting I couldn't get out of. I like to ask technical questions to get a feel for your competency as a driver. What color has the middle wire feeding into the distributer cap?Applicant : What? What does that have to do with driving?Interviewer#1 : If you have experience as you say driving an Escort then you would certainly know the color of that wire. Applicant : I know how to drive. Why don't you ask me questions about driving?Interviewer#1 : I assure you I am. Are you this way with everyone you rent a car from? Nevertheless, I'll ask another question. What is the total weight of an Escort just after it has been washed, but before it has been dried?Applicant : Hand dried or blow dried?Interviewer#1 : It doesn't matter.Applicant : I know.Interviewer#1 : Well then. Thank you very much. We are done. I'll find the next person.Interviewer#2 : Sorry I am late. They never told me I had an interview today. I see on your application that you've driven a lot of different cars and you have a lot of experience driving. So, how would you fit a SUV through the eye of a needle?Applicant : What? What does that have to do with driving? I know how to drive! Please ask me some #$*&! questions about driving!Interviewer#2 : Sorry, I have a meeting to go to. Let me get the next interviewer.Interviewer#3 : Do you have an exact itinerary of where you will drive and park?Applicant : Not really. I just thought I would drive around and explore. I know I plan on going to the tech museum downtown.Interviewer#3 : I believe that's on first street. That's good. It's on our approved list of streets. Have you ever driven first street before?Applicant : Hm, let me think, no, don't think so. But I am sure I can find it. One city street is pretty much like any other, so it shouldn't be a problem.Applicant : Oh I am sorry, our policy is you can only rent you a car if you've driven on an approved street that you've driven on before for more than 10 years. We just can't take a chance that you won't be able to drive on new and different streets. Applicant : I don't believe this. I know how to drive, I have a long history of successul driving in many different cities in many different situations. I can navigate, diagnose and fix minor problems, ask for help, find out anything I need to find out, and learn anything I need to learn. I know everything I need to know to rent this car because I've done it successfully a hundred times before!Interviewer#3 : How excellent for you. But it's policy. We need the exact experience to be sure. No exceptions. You may be very skilled, but you don't have the specific skills we require...that will be all.Agency : Sorry, but interviewers #4 - #8 were called to an emergency off site with upper management to reformulate policies on policy formation.Applicant : Bows head forward, looks at the water spot on the desk, and sighs. Agency : We might or might not let you know in a couple of weeks if we'll rent you a car.Applicant : But I need a car now!Agency : Very well. It was close, not everyone wanted to rent you a car, but we will rent you a 2010 Escort. How much did you pay for your last rental car?Applicant : I don't see how that matters. What are you charging?Agency : We like to know what you paid before so you get a fair rate.Applicant : I paid market rates.Agency : Sorry, we must know how much...Applicant : Gets up and walks out of the interview room in total frustration, wondering how anyone ever rented a car at this agency.Interview chorus: Just as well, we really only want young rock star drivers that are in the top .000001% of their class...

If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers <- Notice date

If most technology people knew their arse from their elbow I would find it funny. But as everyday I come across some of the most crazy implementations, architectures and integration issues I am kind of the interviewer side (and this is after having worked in IT as well).Manager What the #*!! have you done?IT Expert Designed and built a 787 dreamlinerManager Why the #*!! have you done that?IT Expert Well, all transport is the sameManager But all we need is #*!!ing bicycleIT Expert But this is effecient, flies quick, latest technology and is future proofManager What the #*!! are you talking about? Where are the wings. It doesn't even work.IT ExpertWell, it will do. I just need to go off an build a hydo-electric dam for this other desk and then I can do a workaround for the wings...

QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiIf Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers <- Notice dateAlthough this is about right - especially the rocks piece.

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxIf most technology people knew their arse from their elbow I would find it funny. But as everyday I come across some of the most crazy implementations, architectures and integration issues I am kind of the interviewer side (and this is after having worked in IT as well).This is offensive. Firstly because crazy interviews will not seperate the type of people you are talking about. People who can do complex architectures will clear all your Data Structures and BigO notation questions. So basically the only way to filter out is ask what they have done and probe in much the same way you would have a discussion in a social setting with someone who had worked on something you find interesting and want to have a conversation about. Secondly what I have never understood is why not make every programmer just program as a part of the interview process and ask them questions about it coupled with those in the above paragragh. It establishes skills in real time and social aspect can be established with a simple conversation. A vast majority of Programmer interviews endup being a showing off process. The interviewers often want candidates who are smart but not smarter than them. The whole process is driven by insecurities. The only thing that matters in an interview is "Can the candidate do the job and is the candidate normal human being who can interact in a social setting reasonably?". Like the normal determination to be made while renting a car is "Can the person drive and how is their driving record". Asking puzzles is a glorious waste of time. The justification is "I want to establish if the person is smart". It establishes nothing expect whether the candidate is habituated to solving puzzles. I am a strong chess player. If interviewers started asking chess puzzles as a part of the interview process I will come off as a genius simply because I am professional caliber chess player. Yet beyond proving that I am trained chess player nothing has been established and playing chess is not my job.

Asking an impossible to solve puzzle is a great way to test whether candidates handle stress well.

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaAsking an impossible to solve puzzle is a great way to test whether candidates handle stress well.Still a proxy variable. Giving a candidate a computer and a hard programming problem to solve under time pressure is a a better measure and more reliable. Besides most candidates will decide it is an impossible to solve puzzle quickly and decide the interviewer is only testing their ability to think through and will play along cooly.

For a more realistic scenario, insult them during the interview."Hey, F9 monkey, did you fix my spreadsheet yet? why not? we're losing millions here, egghead!"

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaFor more realistic scenario, insult them during the interview."Hey, F9 monkey, did you fix my spreadsheet yet? why not? we're losing millions here, egghead!":-) If anything the interview process in Wall Street is like the backroom casting couch process. The interviewers put on their best behavior. The best managers I have known are always at their best behavior but you know they can screw you anytime.

"F9 monkeys", I've been told, is an actual expression for quants used by traders in Deutsche Bank some years ago.

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa"F9 monkeys", I've been told, is an actual expression for quants used by traders in Deutsche Bank some years ago.Maybe because I am not a C++ guy I don't know what F9 means! What is it?

F9 recalculates an Excel workbook. Shift-F9 recalculates the Excel spreadsheet currently in scope. Those of us who do this stuff for a living also tend to have shortcuts for things like recalculating the currently selected range.

Wow, that sounds proud."Dad, what is your job?""I recalculate Excel spreadsheets for people who abuse me."

Actually, in my experience, the abusers would more often than not be in charge of recalculating the spreadsheet. And I have heard the "F9 monkey" term thrown in the opposite direction also, directed by scornful quants at (typically) junior options traders whose technical skills would be limited to pushing said button that would magically produce refreshed valuation and risk numbers.

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa"F9 monkeys", I've been told, is an actual expression for quants used by traders in Deutsche Bank some years ago.Maybe because I am not a C++ guy I don't know what F9 means! What is it?C++ programmers use F10 and F11.