SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

 
User avatar
trackstar
Posts: 26770
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxA pain in the neck and were probably relieved when the CIA murdered him. I always get the feeling that the Soviets had a singular view: their communism and not anyone else's. Castro was useful. Che upheld communism but not what they wanted....He started calling a spade a spade.In Khrushchev's era, one called a shoe a shoe (and could get away with that), but the stakes weren't as high just yet.**One reason to put someone in charge of labor camps and death squads would be to build-in a mechanism for erosion of popularity and political power.Is it better to be feared or loved? From whose perspective?
Last edited by trackstar on April 10th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
rmax
Posts: 6080
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:31 am

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:37 pm

By Canadian poet Margaret Atwood. We have been underground too long,we have done our work,we are many and one,we remember when we were humanWe have lived among roots and stones,we have sung but no one has listened,we come into the open airat night only to lovewhich disgusts the soles of boots,their leather strict religion.We know what a boot looks likewhen seen from underneath,we know the philosophy of boots,their metaphysic of kicks and ladders.We are afraid of bootsbut contemptuous of the foot that needs them.Soon we will invade like weeds,everywhere but slowly;the captive plants will rebelwith us, fences will topple,brick walls ripple and fall,there will be no more boots.Meanwhile we eat dirtand sleep; we are waitingunder your feet.When we say Attackyou will hear nothingat first.
 
User avatar
trackstar
Posts: 26770
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:41 pm

You should see my work boots - lots of spring dirt!I have to decide what kind of shrubs and garden plants to buy this year.
 
User avatar
trackstar
Posts: 26770
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:45 pm

Well, time to go.Just remember on any public Internet Forum, once you log off:"Silence is argument carried out by other means."- Che Guevara and trackstar
Last edited by trackstar on April 10th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
trackstar
Posts: 26770
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 10:12 pm

One more thing - There is one minute left in the Communist World Cup - Hulking Black Car Apparatchiks vs. Nimble Ideo-Camouflage RevolutionariesIt's Castro, up the field, Castro moving quickly now, dodging Kosygin, whup, slips past Podgorny, ah, two thirds of the Troika came up short there... he's passing to Guevara who evades Breshnev and.....GOAL!
Last edited by trackstar on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Fermion
Posts: 4486
Joined: November 14th, 2002, 8:50 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 2:23 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: PolterQuoteDespite a brief interest in Gandhi, he was not a pacifist; indeed, he was a harsh, uncompromising figure who believed, with Mao, that power came out of the gun barrel. Mr. Castaneda's book includes a gripping passage about the self-serving justification Guevara made for carrying out executions within the ranks, even when he understood that the alleged offenses did not merit death.There's lots to analyse in this stupid remark.Firstly Che never claimed to be a pacifist as he knew full well that it would take a monumental armed struggle to dislodge the US from Latin America. To the contrary he was a very successful military commander in the liberation of Cuba responsible amongst other victories for taking the key town of Santa Clara. A more accurate term than "harsh" or "uncompromising" was disciplined. He sacrificed himself to the struggle and expected everyone else who served with him to do the same. The allegation of "executions within the ranks" comes without the citation of any actual event. However, in his autobiographical "Memories of the Cuban Revolutionary War" he describes in great detail and with great humanity the difficult decisions he had to make to protect his men and turn them into an effective fighting force. I don't recall all the details, but he tells a story of one of his junior officers, when disciplining a new recruit, caused a horrible accident. He held a threatening gun to the recruit's head which then went off accidentally killing the recruit. Che was then faced with disciplining the officer for his egregiously stupid behavior in the face of outrage and potential mutiny from the other (armed) recruits who witnessed the event. I can't remember for certain, but I think he ordered the execution of the officer and may even have done it himself. How many military officers could describe making such decisions with such open-hearted candour? I am very grateful that I have never been in such a situation myself. That probably makes me, unlike Che, a coward. But I think anyone who is going to judge Che needs to tell us what they would have done in his place. And, in general, any armchair critic who likes to character assassinate those who have given their lives fighting against oppression needs to be put in their place."The true revolutionary is guided by a huge sense of love" -- Che Guevara.
Last edited by Fermion on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
zerdna
Posts: 3856
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 4:27 am

Quote I am very grateful that I have never been in such a situation myself. That probably makes me, unlike Che, a coward.Yeah, well. Che, financing of his revolutionary movement, training of his troops, and creating of a romantic legend of a poetic revolutionary including even his long haired portrait in a beret is KGB work that is documented in now opened KGB archives. Che was a mass murderer and a terrorist financed and armed and put to his job by a foreign power to do some destabilization against US interests in the region. Natural target of love for Fermadrone, along with the types like Idi Amin or Gaddafi. Che's story was a bit like a mirror to the story of Osama bin Laden, except KGB got rid of Che before he turned against them, unlike CIA who got rid of bin Laden only afterwards. They both were and are similarly popular in their locals for the same reason -- hating of the US. Che famously threatened to nuke New York if Russian missiles are put in Cuba, Osama actually bombed New York. Fermodrone wishes he bombed New York too, he is just too chickenshit to even say that publicly. That's why Fermodrone, no matter how much wishing you do, you unlike Che, are not popular even among your type of fossil cuckoo communists.
 
User avatar
Cuchulainn
Posts: 59940
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 9:21 am

Maybe we can recall all those Che T-shirts? Luckily they photoshopped Trotsky's photo with Stalin just in time
 
User avatar
Cuchulainn
Posts: 59940
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 9:28 am

QuoteQuote I am very grateful that I have never been in such a situation myself. That probably makes me, unlike Che, a coward.Yeah, well. Che, financing of his revolutionary movement, training of his troops, and creating of a romantic legend of a poetic revolutionary including even his long haired portrait in a beret is KGB work that is documented in now opened KGB archives. Che was a mass murderer and a terrorist financed and armed and put to his job by a foreign power to do some destabilization against US interests in the region. Natural target of love for Fermadrone, along with the types like Idi Amin or Gaddafi. Che's story was a bit like a mirror to the story of Osama bin Laden, except KGB got rid of Che before he turned against them, unlike CIA who got rid of bin Laden only afterwards. They both were and are similarly popular in their locals for the same reason -- hating of the US. Che famously threatened to nuke New York if Russian missiles are put in Cuba, Osama actually bombed New York. Fermodrone wishes he bombed New York too, he is just too chickenshit to even say that publicly. That's why Fermodrone, no matter how much wishing you do, you unlike Che, are not popular even among your type of fossil cuckoo communists.You need to realise that all this was in the late 60's - flower power, anti Vietnam, draft card burning, John Lennon, civil rights movements in USA and Ulster. To some, Che was a new Messiah. People below a certain age just will not undestand the nuances and understandably grasp at simple analogies, which only add to the popular misconceptions. ZerdnaI think you got yout facts wrong on who killed Che? Did you make up that story as you went along? I almost believed it myself for a moment.A Mobile Training Team from the 8th Special Forces Group trained and advised the Bolivian Ranger Battalion that captured and killed Che Guevara in the fall of 1967.Prior to that time, Mobile Training Teams from the 8th Special Forces Group trained counter-insurgent units in Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador that killed three of Che Guevara's best friends and Lieutenants that he had personally dispatched to those three nations to foment revolutions. AFAIK, FYI I read somewhere than Bin Laden was trained by the Americans...
Last edited by Cuchulainn on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Gamal
Posts: 2321
Joined: February 26th, 2004, 8:41 am

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 9:33 am

Why is the West so desperately willing to destroy itself?
 
User avatar
Cuchulainn
Posts: 59940
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 9:33 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: PolterQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulChe Guevara looked good in a hat. P:-)Still, looks best on T-shirts:Maybe this will help that kid (no history lessons at school)QuoteIn 2011, Fitzpatrick announced his intention to copyright the iconic red and black Che Guevara graphic, which he initially released copyright-free for intended use among revolutionary groups in Europe and elsewhere.[2] He blamed "crass commercial" utilization of the image for his decision and plans to hand over the copyright and all rights, in perpetuity, to the family of Guevara in Cuba.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 12:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionQuoteOriginally posted by: PolterQuoteDespite a brief interest in Gandhi, he was not a pacifist; indeed, he was a harsh, uncompromising figure who believed, with Mao, that power came out of the gun barrel. Mr. Castaneda's book includes a gripping passage about the self-serving justification Guevara made for carrying out executions within the ranks, even when he understood that the alleged offenses did not merit death.There's lots to analyse in this stupid remark.Firstly Che never claimed to be a pacifist as he knew full well that it would take a monumental armed struggle to dislodge the US from Latin America. To the contrary he was a very successful military commander in the liberation of Cuba responsible amongst other victories for taking the key town of Santa Clara. A more accurate term than "harsh" or "uncompromising" was disciplined. He sacrificed himself to the struggle and expected everyone else who served with him to do the same. The allegation of "executions within the ranks" comes without the citation of any actual event. However, in his autobiographical "Memories of the Cuban Revolutionary War" he describes in great detail and with great humanity the difficult decisions he had to make to protect his men and turn them into an effective fighting force. I don't recall all the details, but he tells a story of one of his junior officers, when disciplining a new recruit, caused a horrible accident. He held a threatening gun to the recruit's head which then went off accidentally killing the recruit. Che was then faced with disciplining the officer for his egregiously stupid behavior in the face of outrage and potential mutiny from the other (armed) recruits who witnessed the event. I can't remember for certain, but I think he ordered the execution of the officer and may even have done it himself. How many military officers could describe making such decisions with such open-hearted candour? I am very grateful that I have never been in such a situation myself. That probably makes me, unlike Che, a coward. But I think anyone who is going to judge Che needs to tell us what they would have done in his place. And, in general, any armchair critic who likes to character assassinate those who have given their lives fighting against oppression needs to be put in their place."The true revolutionary is guided by a huge sense of love" -- Che Guevara.It would seem that certain ends justify violent means but that we disagree on which ends are right and sufficiently important to justify said means.
 
User avatar
Fermion
Posts: 4486
Joined: November 14th, 2002, 8:50 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 12:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteQuote I am very grateful that I have never been in such a situation myself. That probably makes me, unlike Che, a coward.Yeah, well. Che, financing of his revolutionary movement, training of his troops, and creating of a romantic legend of a poetic revolutionary including even his long haired portrait in a beret is KGB work that is documented in now opened KGB archives. Che was a mass murderer and a terrorist financed and armed and put to his job by a foreign power to do some destabilization against US interests in the region. Natural target of love for Fermadrone, along with the types like Idi Amin or Gaddafi. Che's story was a bit like a mirror to the story of Osama bin Laden, except KGB got rid of Che before he turned against them, unlike CIA who got rid of bin Laden only afterwards. They both were and are similarly popular in their locals for the same reason -- hating of the US. Che famously threatened to nuke New York if Russian missiles are put in Cuba, Osama actually bombed New York. Fermodrone wishes he bombed New York too, he is just too chickenshit to even say that publicly. That's why Fermodrone, no matter how much wishing you do, you unlike Che, are not popular even among your type of fossil cuckoo communists.You need to realise that all this was in the late 60's - flower power, anti Vietnam, draft card burning, John Lennon, civil rights movements in USA and Ulster. To some, Che was a new Messiah. People below a certain age just will not undestand the nuances and understandably grasp at simple analogies, which only add to the popular misconceptions. ZerdnaI think you got yout facts wrong on who killed Che? Did you make up that story as you went along? I almost believed it myself for a moment.A Mobile Training Team from the 8th Special Forces Group trained and advised the Bolivian Ranger Battalion that captured and killed Che Guevara in the fall of 1967.Prior to that time, Mobile Training Teams from the 8th Special Forces Group trained counter-insurgent units in Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador that killed three of Che Guevara's best friends and Lieutenants that he had personally dispatched to those three nations to foment revolutions. AFAIK, FYI I read somewhere than Bin Laden was trained by the Americans...Don't forget that the zerdnaBot was raised as an old school Stalinist. He is well-trained in disinformation tactics. He's an expert at making black seem like white to the uninformed.
Last edited by Fermion on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
zerdna
Posts: 3856
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 1:27 pm

QuoteAFAIK, FYI I read somewhere than Bin Laden was trained by the Americans...Cuch, that was the whole point of my comparison of Che to Ossama. Ossama was set up at direct command of Carter and Bzezinski -- to destabilize USSR by luring it into conflict in Afghanistan. There are memoirs of a CIA chief of that time who describes it in detail. Whole alliance of cash from Saudi, arms from Pakistan secret service, and Ossama organization is the work of CIA. Same way as Che was the work of KGB. CIA actually calculated correctly what was needed to provoke Soviets into the invasion of Afghanistan, they just didn't kill their mad dog in time. I thought i said it the first time. Che by the way didn't just fight american interest. He was Fidel's right hand in war with Cuban peasants when they moved those who owned small plots of land to concentration camps. As far as Russians and Che go, they didn't kill him, indeed. They stopped funding and backing him up -- Che was too expensive to bankroll. They just let go off their hands and the puppet immediately fell down. Sort of like Schwarzenegger letting go of small crook he is holding above the abyss by one leg in 'Commandos'.
Last edited by zerdna on April 11th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Fermion
Posts: 4486
Joined: November 14th, 2002, 8:50 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 12th, 2013, 1:37 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaQuoteAFAIK, FYI I read somewhere than Bin Laden was trained by the Americans...Cuch, that was the whole point of my comparison of Che to Ossama. No. That's just the obvious part. That Osama (and his followers) were anti-US, just like Che and his followers were anti-imperialist, that Osama was trained and armed by the CIA who left it very late to destroy him, whereas the KGB were keen to associate themselves with Che when it served them and to betray him when he didn't is also obvious. And that is where the comparison ends. To attempt to blacken Che with terms like "mass-murderer" and ignoring the differences between an anti-imperialist who put his own life on the line and a religious nutcase who was trained by the CIA to put other people's lives on the line is merely the sort of vile propaganda that you learned from your erstwhile friends in the KGB.
ABOUT WILMOTT

PW by JB

Wilmott.com has been "Serving the Quantitative Finance Community" since 2001. Continued...


Twitter LinkedIn Instagram

JOBS BOARD

JOBS BOARD

Looking for a quant job, risk, algo trading,...? Browse jobs here...


GZIP: On