QuoteOriginally posted by: PaperCutIt would seem they subscribe to the Mike Ditka school of management.My understanding of Citadel, is they they use labor to create product very much like many firms throughout history. Like Daimler Chrysler, they are in a fairly commoditized business.It's not like they can be doing anything proprietary or secret, when there are so many people leaving the firm to work elsewhere. You just are contractually agreed to not steal their clients.

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmer My understanding of Citadel, is they they use labor to create product very much like many firms throughout history. Like Daimler Chrysler, they are in a fairly commoditized business.I manage technical people. Something I've learned from them is that they need a lot of maintenence and care - one could joke that it's like tending a garden - lots of attention and TLC for hope of a yield at harvest time.What I mean by the "Mike Ditka style" is an immediate demand of that yield, and an immediate switch-out of the garden plant if they can't or won't comply. It's a way to do things, but not the best way, at least in my experience. Switching from analogy to example, consider trend-trading. We may have a losing week, month or quarter, but you can only obtain the profits if you're really willing to stock with it. Why? Because to deny the existence of a "L" side of a "P & L" distribution is to be naive.I simply think that today's trading environment is more challenging than it ever has been, and bright, creative people need time in order to trade well.

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaperCutI simply think that today's trading environment is more challenging than it ever has been, and bright, creative people need time in order to trade well.Or maybe the bright people and capital should simply be redeployed to feature-film animation, or petroleum engineering...

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmer...Or maybe the bright people and capital should simply be redeployed to feature-film animation, or petroleum engineering...Let me put it to you in another way. We'll have a coin flip (lots of dreary examples from which to choose, located elsewhere in these forums). Heads, you win $x, tails you lose $y. If x is bigger than y, you'll have a positive expectation - a winning game with "positive edge."You will set up a Miami-based business structure in which you will flip this coin, and I will be your capitalist. The problem is, the first two days you flip tails. Should I remove the funding? Presumably there ought to be some statistical way to conclude that, given the observed trials, the coin wasn't 50-50 after all. So we conclude that we will pull the funding when this test is met.The chief objection to the company in question was that they are making that decision suboptimally, which is not only bad news for the guy who gets sacked but also bad business for the company.

Sure, send me the money.

I have worked with a few hedge fund before. In general, working in a hedge fund is for more experienced people. It is more suitable for people who want to apply their experience rather than gain experience. Also, a lot of crooks are working in this industry. If you join the wrong firm, you may have ruined your career. I think you can look at a few things when you evaluate whether that is a good hedge fund to work in:(1) AUM (asset under management) is a good indication of how well established the fund is. Excluding fund of funds, 1 Billion + is considered very well established. 500m is considered as middle-large. <100m is considered as very small. Of course, small funds can become large eventually and they may pay you well in the process. (2) background of the head trader(3) any prestigeous award won by the fund(4) track record(5) size of the quant teamBe careful when you accept an offer. Many hedge fund offers have terms like garden leave or non-compete agreement. This may make you very difficult in getting the next job.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jimmycarterI have worked with a few hedge fund before. In general, working in a hedge fund is for more experienced people. It is more suitable for people who want to apply their experience rather than gain experience. Also, a lot of crooks are working in this industry. If you join the wrong firm, you may have ruined your career. Hedge fund salaries are not consistent and very much performance based. Fresh grads can risk anything... older more experienced individuals have other priorities like family and retirement in mind. In this light, it attracts more non-experienced greedy people than experienced prudent ones. This is what makes HFs quite dangerous.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jimmycarterBe careful when you accept an offer. Many hedge fund offers have terms like garden leave or non-compete agreement. This may make you very difficult in getting the next job.This information is very important for me. I am currently interviewing with DE Shaw. Do they have such kind of terms?

QuoteOriginally posted by: Rrolack2QuoteCitadel is very quant, but is the stereotypical hedge fund work environment, which isn't positive.I know a guy who worked at Citadel, and he told me he looks forward to the day when he can take that place off his CV.I interviewed Citadel and all they wanted was C++ & some one who understand quant. The hiring manager was bent upon C++ and did not pay much attention to anything else after that. I personally like the quant shops where programming is required but not a must. We all know , as long as you can program in a language, picking the syntax except that of C++ like is not that hard.I lost my interest in Citadel after that phone interview

QuoteOriginally posted by: HinstingsQuoteOriginally posted by: jimmycarterBe careful when you accept an offer. Many hedge fund offers have terms like garden leave or non-compete agreement. This may make you very difficult in getting the next job.This information is very important for me. I am currently interviewing with DE Shaw. Do they have such kind of terms?Its actually worth asking the portfolio manager as to how the funds are doing relative to benchmarks. The chances are that they won't inform you but if they have any marketing materials from previous year, then try to get hold of that. At least one hedge fund was willing to share it with me, when I interviewed. The other fund of fund, I had an inside source. After I knew they were stinking up , I declined the offer. You don't want to get into a hedge fund that may not exist after a year.

QuoteOriginally posted by: vbprogrammer I interviewed Citadel and all they wanted was C++ & some one who understand quant. The hiring manager was bent upon C++ and did not pay much attention to anything else after that. I personally like the quant shops where programming is required but not a must. We all know , as long as you can program in a language, picking the syntax except that of C++ like is not that hard.I lost my interest in Citadel after that phone interviewBut maybe they will ask you more questions on finance and brainteasers in the second phone interview. To my humble opinion, it should not be criticized if the interviewer asks you a lot of programming questions. To be an expert in object-oriented design and C++ development is not that easy. It takes a long time. Surely the companies want to get you as an expert. While for finance stuff, you are not doing investment banking or trading, you are doing quantitative finance, so basically the financial knowledge you need can be learned quickly on the job.

QuoteOriginally posted by: HinstingsQuoteOriginally posted by: vbprogrammer I interviewed Citadel and all they wanted was C++ & some one who understand quant. The hiring manager was bent upon C++ and did not pay much attention to anything else after that. I personally like the quant shops where programming is required but not a must. We all know , as long as you can program in a language, picking the syntax except that of C++ like is not that hard.I lost my interest in Citadel after that phone interviewBut maybe they will ask you more questions on finance and brainteasers in the second phone interview. To my humble opinion, it should not be criticized if the interviewer asks you a lot of programming questions. To be an expert in object-oriented design and C++ development is not that easy. It takes a long time. Surely the companies want to get you as an expert. While for finance stuff, you are not doing investment banking or trading, you are doing quantitative finance, so basically the financial knowledge you need can be learned quickly on the job.Well, no the manager told that they need someone very strong in C++. The did not say until the interview. He did ask question on finance/quant (like what is AR1 process) but they were relatively lot simpler than the equivalent of C++. It seemed like a position meant for a good programmer who understands Quant. Perhaps, down the line, it would have been different/perhaps not. But, at least 80% of the time I could see the job required programming in C++ -- when you are essentially not learning anything.

QuoteOriginally posted by: vbprogrammerQuoteOriginally posted by: HinstingsQuoteOriginally posted by: vbprogrammer I interviewed Citadel and all they wanted was C++ & some one who understand quant. The hiring manager was bent upon C++ and did not pay much attention to anything else after that. I personally like the quant shops where programming is required but not a must. We all know , as long as you can program in a language, picking the syntax except that of C++ like is not that hard.I lost my interest in Citadel after that phone interviewBut maybe they will ask you more questions on finance and brainteasers in the second phone interview. To my humble opinion, it should not be criticized if the interviewer asks you a lot of programming questions. To be an expert in object-oriented design and C++ development is not that easy. It takes a long time. Surely the companies want to get you as an expert. While for finance stuff, you are not doing investment banking or trading, you are doing quantitative finance, so basically the financial knowledge you need can be learned quickly on the job.Well, no the manager told that they need someone very strong in C++. The did not say until the interview. He did ask question on finance/quant (like what is AR1 process) but they were relatively lot simpler than the equivalent of C++. It seemed like a position meant for a good programmer who understands Quant. Perhaps, down the line, it would have been different/perhaps not. But, at least 80% of the time I could see the job required programming in C++ -- when you are essentially not learning anything.Then that's maybe a Quant developer position. For a Quant position, I would say the questions on programming and the questions on SDE / mathematics etc should be half-half.