Hi,I have a general question about Proprietary Trading firms and would really appreciate anyone's input. Here is the situation: I have been recruited heavily into joining a lot of these....however, most of these have shady rules, such as no base salary, and how pay is purely based on a percentage return....also, its interesting how many of these firms ask for us (the traders) to put up our own capital at first up front and then use their "leverage." Anyways, the whole process just seems rather strange and reminds me a little of the movie Boiler Room, but I'm not sure if I'm being too critical or overly cautious. Does anyone know if most of those firms are legit? And what are the prospects of career growth joining one of these firms? I really appreciate any advice!-MC

if they don't pay salary and ask YOU to pay anything, it is bullshitby the way, this is just a rehash of the oldest fucking trick in the game. Get people's money, give them 1:5, 1:10, 1:20, or 1:50 leverage, have them trade, take 2-10% over broker's call on leverage, when they exceed margin calls shut them out. It is called bucket shop bullshit. to give you a comparison, a good firm will give you fat salary, health, dental, at least 50% 401k matching, bonuses based on total profit / your share, pay for all licenses etc., will give you tons of perks (hella vacation time, free sick leave, free lunch, christmas, super bowl parties, etc.), free bloomberg or ilx, access to desks on the floor/pit/exchanges, low commission (straight exchange sometimes) on your own account (if no conflict of interest), etc. if you are not getting any of this shit, fuck them.not to burst your bubble, but those that want you pay aren't recruiting you as much as they are trying to sell you....

Mmmmm if I remember well Boiler Room was a bad film about some brokers trying to sell some shit stocks during the internet bubble to clueless retail customers, I don't see how this can relate to the firms you're talking about....Anyway. There are obviously shops out there that are a rip off (if they offer no salary, they charge u for costs, they charge u for trading/clearing, they ask you to put down a lot of your own money, they retain a good share of profits, ecc...). If that's the deal and you are a proven/confident trader u'd better off trading as a local (meaning your own money).The whole point is: you can trade as a local or you can trade as an employee.In the first case: risk of losing money, no salary, potentially unlimited gains. But u need balls.In the second case: no real risk, salary (apart from being axed), discretionary bonus (good potential of being fucked)Being an hybrid you get to get the worse of both. (at the same time it's understandable, given the moral hazard, that people are hesitant of offering: salary + no capital commitment + a fat cut of the trading profit... If they ever offer u that deal just take it dude! First thing: take a huge punt, close your eyes and finger crossed.... upside: $$$$$$$ downside: being fired... it's a no brainer I'd say).

sounds interesting. how can i get into the racket ?

Easy - send me $5000 and I'll hire you as an executive associate.Boiler Room wasn't a bad film! It was an awesome film:Jim Young: Okay, before we get started, I have one question, has anyone here passed a Series Seven exam?Man: (raises his hand) I have a Series Seven license.Jim: Good for you. You can get up too.Man: What? Why?Jim: We don't hire brokers here, we train new ones. That's it Skippy - pack your shit, let's go. (the man leaves) Okay, here's the deal, I'm not here to waste your time. Okay, I certainly hope you're not here to waste mine, so I'm gonna keep this short. Become an employee of this firm, you will make your first million within 3 years. Okay, I'm gonna repeat that, you will make a million dollars, within three years of your first day of employment at J.T. Marlin. There's no question as to whether you become a millionaire working here. The only question is, how many times over. You think I'm joking....I am not joking. I am a millionaire. It's a weird thing to hear, right? Lemme tell ya, its a weird thing to say: I am a fucking millionaire. And guess how old I am...27, you know what that makes me here? A fucking senior citizen. This firm is entirely comprised of people your age, not mine. Lucky for me, I happen to be very fucking good at my job or I'd be out of one. You guys are the new blood. You are the future swinging dicks of this firm. Now you all look money hungry and that's good. Anybody who tells you that money is the root of all evil, doesn't fucking have any. They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face! Ear to ear baby! You want details, fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? (slides keys across long table) I have a ridiculous house at the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible, let me tell you what's required. You are required to work your fucking ass off at this firm. We want winners here, not pikers. A piker walks at the bell. A Piker asks how much vacation time you get in the first year. Vacation time? People come to work at this firm for one reason, to become filthy rich, that's it. We're not here to make friends, we're not saving the fucking manatees here guys. You want vacation time, go teach third grade at a public school.

Don't send anyone $5000, that is bullshit.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ManDon't send anyone $5000, that is bullshit.Don't listen to Man! He's a piker, you'll never get to be a millionaire following him!Seriously though, my comment was meant as a joke ..... wasn't that obvious?

"wasn't that obvious"I am near-sighted.

I used to work to a Prop Trading Firm when I finishe my undergrad edu. I never made money on it. Although there are good and bad firms (just like in all job markets) I think they try to involve guys in a commision generation business, in which they always win. Every trader gives the company volume in transactions and commision on every trade. Then is very dificult to make money for a while (6 months to 2 years) and also most of them dont use real quant methodologies for their trading.So, the only I can say is take these facts and make your choice.

"to give you a comparison, a good firm will give you fat salary, health, dental, at least 50% 401k matching, bonuses based on total profit / your share, pay for all licenses etc., will give you tons of perks (hella vacation time, free sick leave, free lunch, christmas, super bowl parties, etc.), free bloomberg or ilx, access to desks on the floor/pit/exchanges, low commission (straight exchange sometimes) on your own account (if no conflict of interest), etc. if you are not getting any of this shit, fuck them."Then probably u r going to be unemployed for the rest of your life. BTW I never heard of a firm which offers "low commission (straight exchange sometimes) on your own account (if no conflict of interest)"... No firm wants to encourage its traders to trade for their own account. The reason being not only potential conflicts of interest (easily solved: you can't trade the same stuff you trade for the firm) but the fact that it's going to be a huge distraction from doing thier job. (Ex: fuck the position of the firm, I'm 10K down of my own money! I've got more important things to look at now....)

You are thinking prop, not flow. I didn't clarify, but I am speaking about flow (knight, man, etc.). I don't know why I offererd that info for a prop trading thread. "BTW I never heard of a firm which offers "low commission (straight exchange sometimes) on your own account (if no conflict of interest)"... " Think a flow firm that wants to offer as much business to the PSE or ISE, including their traders' execution for incentives. But, you are right at a certian point the trader starts worrying more abut his positions than the executing. You have to juggle. But in general it isn't something they offer as an incentive to work there, it is more like a side-benefit...

send me $5000 and I'll hire you as an executive associate.______________________Where do i send the money ? And how much pay and vacation time do you offer ?

Pay me $4990.90 and I'll make you supreme executive president of trading activities

i am waiting for a better offer

$50001 and an office with a window