Some estimates put annual deaths in Chinese coal mining around the 10,000 mark. How does this actuality match the actualities and probabilities of deaths relating to Chinese Nuclear power generation? The generation of mechanical energy by distributed internal combustion causes several hundred thousand deaths per year. The increasingly war-driven search for oil to power distributed internal combustion causes further death. Why does nuclear power get such a bad press when over 60 years it has killed directly or indirectly so few people?

I agree that the wanton disregard for even the most basic safety procedures within the coal mining industry is an enormous scandal in China. Every month there seems to be a new disaster with hundreds of victims. Absolutely wanton disregard for human life.Given the horrific track record of the Chinese with respect to coal mining, on what basis have you concluded that their safety record on nuclear plants would be any better?Matthew

My guess is that China is simply trying to advance its capabilities as quickly as possible, whether or not is has invested enough to do so safely or economically.I'm not sure if it was coal, but I remember one story of a Turkish mine with such a terrible history of accidents and inefficiency, that an engineer had estimated that it would have been cheaper for the Turkish government to simply import the coal (or whatever) and just pay the miners to stay home.

QuoteOriginally posted by: Ouyangso the lives of some Chinese coal miners aren't really that important after all...Important to whom? If you are counting on staying alive because your life is important to a stranger 5,000 miles away, think again. Or, you can probably go move into a tsunami survivors camp, if you think that will be a move up in the world.For 1,000 years, people have tried to take care of other people. And never yet have they done more for the people, than the people could have done for themselves.Is this slave labor, or can these miners walk out and go back to the farm any time? And if they wouldn't voluntarily go back to the farm, why would you send them there with sanctions?Chinese people are not your pets.

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: OuyangFor 1,000 years, people have tried to take care of other people. And never yet have they done more for the people, than the people could have done for themselves.Farmer, I don't understand this. Are you saying that the Jewish people in Germany should have somehow "saved themselves" and that the entry of the US into the war was wrong?Or merely that war as an instrumentality of "taking care of other people" can occasionally be ok but that humanitarian efforts are always a failure?Also, why did you choose that particular figure of 1,000 years? Did something change in 995 AD?Matthew

Farmer, I don't understand this. Are you saying that the Jewish people in Germany should have somehow "saved themselves" There was a prolonged window where they could have done just that. By WWII of course it was too late.Is true of almost every large scale bad thing for any country.Recall that Britsh Fascists were beaten in street fighting by ordinary citizens, whilst their leaders were darlings of Ango-American society.Leaders rule because people let them.and that the entry of the US into the war was wrong?The USA didn't enter WWII until the Germans had already started to lose to the Brits and (mainly) Russians. I rather suspect more Jews died in the US army than were saved by American entry into the European war.The Japanese war was caused by American attempts to muscle in on the power of the fading British Empire. Harldy an attempt to "help" people.America did not enter the war for any honourable reason of any kind.Stupidity on a heroic scale led by scum like the Kennedys had convinced the USA that if they ignored the world it would go away.It didn't.Many Americans died correcting that error.

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: OuyangFor 1,000 years, people have tried to take care of other people. And never yet have they done more for the people, than the people could have done for themselves.Farmer, I just can't agree with this. What about smallpox? The elimination of smallpox was done by a concerned group of people who thought they could change the world for the better.And they succeeded. Do you regret that smallpox is no more?Take polio. We have a shot at eliminating polio forever, a serious chance. Because some people are convinced the world would be a better place without it and are willing to take care of others.Should we immediately halt all efforts to immunize against polio? Let the dispossessed in Darfur, already starving choose to enter the "free market" and pay for polio inoculation with zero funds?Should we stop all childhood vaccinations?Your position just doesn't seem rational.Matthew

Imaginatively typing Chinese Nuclear Power Generation into Google yields (should have done this first):Thiswhich shows the apparently safe, well managed and large scale deployment of Nuclear Power in China using a combination of Western and locally developed technology.It seems like the Chinese have to tolerate the mining death rate (there was another big explosion in the papers today - 200 dead), whilst they go for Nuclear power big time. Perhaps confirming my suspicions behind my first unresearched post.If the Chinese succeed in largely fulfilling power demand independently of any great dependence on external supplies of oil and gas over the next 20 years and oil supply dips per the Peak Oil scenario (Wilmott posts passim) over the same period, then the balance of power will shift Eastwards quite dramatically.My view is that Nuclear Power gives a lower deaths per terajoule rate than any other source of energy and that we had better get building Nuclear power stations pronto. I do not like the idea of my grandkids, should I be so blessed, being sent down the pits because we need the coal.

This link assuring us that nuclear power development in China is produced by the Nuclear Power industry.I think it highly likely that a web site put up for purpose of promoting the coal mining industry in China would smoothly assure us that safety improvements in coal mines in China are being rapidly implemented.Critical thinking requires something more than typing phrases into Google.Matthew

Meanwhile, the carnage in China's coal mining industry continues. This from the Beeb today:MatthewWeather hampers China mine rescueFreezing temperatures are hampering efforts to reach a dozen miners still trapped after a blast in a coal mine in China killed at least 203 people.A snowfall has worsened conditions at the mine in the north-eastern city of Fuxin, where 12 miners are missing a day after the disaster.One miner was rescued on Monday night and is receiving treatment in hospital.The accident is the deadliest to hit China's mining industry since the communist party took power in 1949.A BBC correspondent in Beijing says the disaster again underlines the government's inability to ensure safety in its mines.InquiryRescue operations began immediately after the blast 242m (794 ft) underground at the Sunjiawan mine in Liaoning province."We have never seen such a big accident before," a local mining official told Reuters news agency. CHINA'S MINING DISASTERSWorld's most deadly mining industry - 6000 killed in 2004Demand for energy jeopardises safetyGovernment did not disclose details of accidents until recentlyWorld's most deadly mining accident took place in China in 1942 - 1,549 people died in Japanese-occupied ManchuriaPresident Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Wen Jiabao called for local officials to take "all possible measures" to rescue trapped workers, state television reported.An inquiry is under way into the cause of the accident.Underground explosions are often blamed on a lack of ventilation equipment to remove gas that seeps from the coal bed.Fuxin, as one of China's oldest coal mining regions, could be a particularly risky place to work as miners must tunnel far underground to reach coal seams.Workers reported feeling something shake the mine 10 minutes before the blast, Xinhua news agency said.Moments later, gas detectors lost their signals and one of the mine's main pits filled with smoke, it said.Poor recordA Fuxin resident said many of her neighbours worked for the mine."We are of course very shocked and feel very sad about it because people are still enjoying the Lunar New Year," she told state media.Another local, doctor Zhao Yunfu, said: "I really can't believe it, I thought the mine had stopped production" for the holidays.More than 5,000 people died in explosions, floods and fires in China's mines in 2004.China last year produced 35% of the world's coal but reported 80% of global deaths in colliery accidents.China has two kinds of mines - big, state-run operations that are generally thought to be safer, and smaller private mines where the majority of deaths occur.Correspondents say energy shortages mean the price of coal has gone up, leading some unscrupulous mine operators to cut corners to increase production.Others have been accused of re-opening mines which had been shut down because of poor safety standards.Story from BBC NEWS:http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 268017.stm