I have been looking at the growth projections, demographics(age profile,middle class size etc), infrastructure of America, Europe and Asia Pacific.I am having a feeling that the kind of growth we saw in the Americas in1990's can be replicated in China from 2005-2015( already Chinais having 8% growth which will get accelerated with the olympics,growth in infrastructure and building of new cities). I would like to be apart of that boom. I am from India. I am a programmercurrently developing trading applications.I have started learning Manadarin. It will take me about3 yrs to learn it well.Experts please give your advice on1. How do I develop skills related to buisness culture in China?2. Learning Mandarin is a very significant investment I am making in termsof my time. What do you feel will the payoff justify this investment?3. How difficult is doing buisness in China for people who are not Chinese( in terms of culture, language and other factors)?My plan is to learn mandarin, go to China around 2006( before theolympics when big investments will roll in) spend few years to getto know the country and the buisness. Go to India around 2009and participate in Indo-chinese or Indo-Us-Chinese trade( I have a feelingthis will be significant by 2010). I will like your comments on this. will be delighted if someone kindlyprovides me advice and mentoring( particulary your idea on my plans ofIndo-chinese trade ...... how difficult it will be ...... what issues you forsee etc)Have a good week.

Don't ask the experts, ask the Gurus .... Mandarin is tough ... and wouldn't Cantonese be better, say if you are in HK or Shangai which are the main centers ... ?Honestly, I get a feeling from your posts that you are not focused in life, and doing too many things .... you are trying to be a quant, and are a software guy and did gymnastics earlier and now doing yoga and golf and then even chinese .... well good luck!!

thank you for your good wishes. i am exploring ..... focus isnecessary i agree but oppurtunities needs to be identified andgrabbed.

QuoteOriginally posted by: pb273Mandarin is tough ... and wouldn't Cantonese be better, say if you are in HK or Shangai which are the main centers ... ?In Shanghai, the dominant language is a Shanghai dialect or 'Shanghai-nese'.So you really need four languages before going to China: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese and English, with the relative importance depending on the city.Cheers

from what you say I guess I will stop learning Mandarin. I guess I will have to look somewhere else. whatbetter place than my country India. I already know the language and thepeople.

Hi Student,So is Shanghainese very different from Cantonese, or are they similar ? From what I have heard a typical Mandarin chinese speaker (say from Beijing) may have a real tough time understanding Cantonese, wud that be same between Cantonese and Shanghainese ?

Mandarin, Cantonese and Shanghainese are all very different from each other orally. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it's a bit like English and French, orally. Grammar and stuff though are pretty much the same, but there are all sorts of different slangs. So tough time would be a definite understatement.Cheers

QuoteOriginally posted by: samudra2. Learning Mandarin is a very significant investment I am making in termsof my time. What do you feel will the payoff justify this investment?Regardless of the local dialect, educated Chinese will certainly understand Mandarin and frequently English. If you are to study Chinese for the purpose of working in China or Hong Kong, I would focus on Mandarin. Mandarin is a difficult language to learn as the written characters required for literacy are a significant barrier and take years to learn. It is unlikely that you will reach any level of proficiency in part-time study from afar. You will have to move to a Mandarin-speaking region like Taiwan or Beijing to really pick it up. I recommend focusing on improving your quant skills, if that is your chosen career. Your professional skills will make the biggest difference in your achievements.

dc, student, pb273,My sincere thanks for spending your valuable time to provideme with the info.

As a Chinese living in Hong Kong I don't think you all should learn Mandarin though it is the official language in China. I can speak Cantonese, Mandarin, and a dialect you have never heard of its name. Learning Mandarin is ONLY necessary for Chinese people, but many foreigners like you have the misconception that Mandarin could help you develop your career in China, and it's not. As you all are professionals you are not dealing with those illiterate people in China, and most likely those educated ones can speak English. Trust me, it just wastes your time. The most difficult thing is that you are all accustomed to play with rules and regulations, but in China you will be dealing with a bunch of thieves. Only large companies like Intel, Motorola, HSBC, etc, can take advantage of the China market because they can negotiate with senior government officials. But individuals like you will not have any opportunity.Up to now there are NO index futures, no exchange traded options, no financial derivatives in the mainland China, except Hong Kong. Most stocks trading in Shanghai and Shenzhen stock exchanges are trading at a P/E of over 60x, and manipulating accounting statements is part of their culture.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CCHLearning Mandarin is ONLY necessary for Chinese people, but many foreigners like you have the misconception that Mandarin could help you develop your career in China, and it's not.One would hope that learning Chinese helps one to understand the culture better.QuoteOriginally posted by: CCHThe most difficult thing is that you are all accustomed to play with rules and regulations, but in China you will be dealing with a bunch of thieves. Only large companies like Intel, Motorola, HSBC, etc, can take advantage of the China market because they can negotiate with senior government officials. But individuals like you will not have any opportunity.Up to now there are NO index futures, no exchange traded options, no financial derivatives in the mainland China, except Hong Kong. Most stocks trading in Shanghai and Shenzhen stock exchanges are trading at a P/E of over 60x, and manipulating accounting statements is part of their culture.This is not news for countries converting towards capitalism ...

QuoteOne would hope that learning Chinese helps one to understand the culture betterThere are tones of books/articles covering this subject. For all non Mandarin speakers in China, they just have to spend several months to master it, but for most Wilmotters here it will spend you several years, because the Chinese characters requires strong memory. QuoteThis is not news for countries converting towards capitalism ...Depends on what kind of skills you have, but I can tell you that all quantitative techniques cannot work in China. You should learn the art of bribery, the art of cheating, etc. I used to engage in some kind of smuggling semiconductors (heavy tax items) like CPU and RAM into China and I discover that this is the only rewarding business in China. Nearly all Chinese businessmen like to use price competition to kill their enemies that eventually many business sectors end up in perfect competition. And piracy is another severe problem that I don't think the WTO can help. So if you do not have any sustainable competitive advantage, don't come to China otherwise you will be wiped out.Remind you: there are abundant and cheap supply of mathematicians/programmers in China, I can't see any reasons why the Wilmotters deserve a wage premium over them.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CCHI used to engage in some kind of smuggling semiconductors (heavy tax items) like CPU and RAM into China and I discover that this is the only rewarding business in China.?

CCH, I used to engage in some kind of smuggling semiconductors (heavy tax items) like CPU and RAM into China and I discover that this is the only rewarding business in China.Do you not feel shamed about this thing? It is too sad !!!What is real Chinese culuture? I heared about if you want to learn Chinese well including writing, the best way is to learn it in Taiwan. You could real Chinese classical music in Taiwan, if you are really interested in it. samudra, Are you working in the States? The best way to learn Mandarin is to make real good Chinese friends.

CCH,Thank you for your honest opinion. I have got a very good perspective. CB,Thanks for your suggestion. I do work in States and have chinese friends.But always communication is in English. My friend married a chinese lady.But still havenot learned even 1% mandarin after almost 2 yrs.Mandarin is a very difficult language.