I just heard some fairly awful stories from some friends of mine. One of them has been interviewing with some tier 1 IBs and got to a couple of second rounds (i.e. passed the phone screen). Today, all of a sudden he gets told by his HH that they no longer want to see him. The HH was reluctant to tell him whether the jobs had been filled or just been axed. I do feel that if the jobs have been filled by someone else, it is highly unethical to not even interview everyone they considered. This friend of mine is very clever and if he had had his interviews a little earlier I think he would have stood a decent chance of getting the job.Another has been told by his HH that he should brace himself for a bumpy ride as there currently are a large amount of highly skilled/intelligent quants looking for jobs (guess some come from the HFs that imploded recently). Basically, what he read between the lines was that the HH didn't want to take him on. I know the candidate well (very high class degree from a top university, very bright, bordering on autistic) and again I think he would have stood a good chance.Has anyone else had similar experiences? Is this the norm? Is this just happening because of the current situation?

I failed to see why these stories are 'horrible'. They are completely normal I think.Do you know how many experienced quants are jobless at the moment? Most of them graduated from top universities, being smart and strong in math and programming.

QuoteOriginally posted by: PrincipalStratDo you know how many experienced quants are jobless at the moment? Most of them graduated from top universities, being smart and strong in math and programming.No, I don't. I am not a quant, I am an academic, but I have a constant stream of students going into quant jobs. I have never heard anything this bad before. They wouldn't always get their dream job, but at least it was always fair. None of this "today we like you, tomorrow we don't" stuff.

QuoteOriginally posted by: Atreides bordering on autisticActually, I don't wanna be necessarily politically incorrect, but being almost autistic doesn't give you an edge in finding a job. Here it seems that is a merit, a sure signature that he's smart. Man, if all quants are nerds or with problems maybe it's better if I don't find my job either and look for something else!tigerman

I fear that I can't see a horror story here at all, is there some other information ?Phone screens are a first cut, it is of course good to pass them, but it's hardly a guarantee of a job.Also it is not really always a pass/fail thing, some candidates may come across as stronger.The HH was reluctant to tell him whether the jobs had been filled or just been axed. IIt isn't as simple as this, and in any case the HH often cannot find out.Sometimes the hiring manager cannot get sign off for the full headcount, and may be told he can only hire, one, not two.I do feel that if the jobs have been filled by someone else, it is highly unethical to not even interview everyone they considered. Oh dear...Why do you think that ?I don't see the bank as under any such obligation. Have you any idea how many people apply for some entry level jobs ?Basically, what he read between the lines was that the HH didn't want to take him on. I think he read wrong.

QuoteOriginally posted by: PrincipalStratI failed to see why these stories are 'horrible'. They are completely normal I think.Do you know how many experienced quants are jobless at the moment? Most of them graduated from top universities, being smart and strong in math and programming.They must be lacking the autism qualities

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCI fear that I can't see a horror story here at all, is there some other information ?Phone screens are a first cut, it is of course good to pass them, but it's hardly a guarantee of a job.Also it is not really always a pass/fail thing, some candidates may come across as stronger.The HH was reluctant to tell him whether the jobs had been filled or just been axed. IIt isn't as simple as this, and in any case the HH often cannot find out.Sometimes the hiring manager cannot get sign off for the full headcount, and may be told he can only hire, one, not two.I do feel that if the jobs have been filled by someone else, it is highly unethical to not even interview everyone they considered. Oh dear...Why do you think that ?I don't see the bank as under any such obligation. Have you any idea how many people apply for some entry level jobs ?Basically, what he read between the lines was that the HH didn't want to take him on. I think he read wrong.Ok, maybe I am naive because I come from a different background, but my understanding was that if there is a job out there, that job usually has a deadline and everyone who gets in before the deadline should be considered. I am not saying everyone should be made an offer, or even everyone should get an interview, but what I am saying is that IF someone is told on a Friday that "Congratulations, you passed the first round, they want to see you again asap, when can you make it?" by their headhunter and the guy frees up his tuesday for a second round and they say ok, he SHOULD expect to at least be seen on the tuesday. Instead what happened in the above case is the the HH calls on the monday, saying the the job is no longer there. If the job really has been axed, then ok, I can sort of understand why they don't want to go trhough with the interview just for the sake of it, BUT if on the other hand someone else has interviewed on the Monday and impressed them, who is to say that my student could not have impressed them equally well. I seriously doubt that this other candidate was so far above what my guy did that after seeing him they thought my student was just a waste of time, but that is exactly the message they sent by doing what they did. That is what I think is unethical. If they really thought the other guy was the best thing since sliced bread, they should have withheld on telling my guy that he has a second round and just told him his first round interview wasn't good enough. That I (and he) would have accepted as fair, we both know how difficult it is to get a job right now.Now, I am not a quant, nor have I ever worked in the industry, but I have had a lot of students applying for the last few years. Not all were succesful, but nobody has even been treated like this.Thank you though for the HH comment. Maybe the other guy did read it badly.

Turning the situation around, as a candidate, I've had times when I've been booked in for a second interview somewhere else, but decided in the meantime to accept another offer. In that case, I've told the other employer straight away that I'm no longer seeking their position, because I don't want to waste their time (or mine). I felt this was fair and certainly not unethical. Interviews to me are like meetings than contracts - you have them as long as you both want them to happen - if either party no longer wants it to happen it gets cancelled.

I think you got some wrong impression about fairness/ethics here. I don't think there is any obligation for the firm to give a second interview even if he did great in your first.... Once a hiring manager took 2 huge piles of hundreds of resumes he got from HR and threw one straight in the garbage without even looking at it. These were all really smart PhDs, Masters... all very qualified. After a puzzled look, he said "I don't want to hire someone who's not lucky"! The moral of the story being that they get so many applications for these entry level jobs that anything, anything, can go wrong... so don't expect to be treated "fairly".

Ahh, I miss the days of being a naiive and idealistic academic in my cosy Ivory Tower ... Unfortunatley, once you leave you can never really return.

I do like Sunmaker's story, and it is entirely consistent with the way it is sometimes.But of course the manager has selected people who are lucky half the time, and one could argue that they are more dangerous to employ

One of my first job interviews was with a bank and the trader was supposed to call me at a particular time. He already had 7 interviews before me. I knew that but what I did not know was that he had already selected his 2 best candidates before me. I was not even informed. I waited 2 hours for the phone interview and called the HR to see what is going on. Almost no response on the first day and the next day, HR told that they are sorry but the trader already hired his two candidates for the in person interview. Was that wrong? Well, yes to the extent that at least I could have been informed. It is like being stood up on a date. But, was that unethical? Depends on what you define as ethics. As far as trader was concerned , he had a perfectly legit explanation. He did not have time to interview more candidates and went with the best that he could find. In your case, at least the candidates were told that the interview is going to be cancelled. I really do not see why this is unethical and as to why the experience is horrible. Such events are bound to happen more in a bad market than in a good market. In a bad market, there are more candidates and resume where as in a good market, there are more jobs and recruiters are more careful not to let go of a good candidate for (may be) less money.

Imagine you have 8 boxes, and are tasked to find the two with the largest amount of money inside. Do you stop after only opening 7?

For 8, still can try one by one. But for 800, probably a random sampling will do. Even the hiring manager is patient enough to open each of the 800 boxes, what is the point? Lots of new candidates are coming, he will never be able to decide which one is the best given he hasn't seen the whole forest...

I was merely translating the previous post into something more obvious. There was no mention of 800 candidates, but only 8. vbprogrammer might well have been better than either of the other two.