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why not start with Genesis?

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not start with Genesis?indeed,Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start !

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not start with Genesis?Well if you start with a self-contradiction....Quote"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," ... who knows where you'll end up? In fact, the very idea of this thread puts me in mind of the Walrus and the Carpenter:Quote"The time has come," the Walrus said,"To talk of many things:Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--Of cabbages--and kings--And why the sea is boiling hot--And whether pigs have wings."I believe theologians pondered for may centuries over the intriguing question of how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Will studying the bible give us the answer? Surely someone can quote a critical passage to resolve this issue which is so vital to world peace.

QuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not start with Genesis?A nice description of the forum:Genesis 11:6-7 (KJV)6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionQuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not start with Genesis?Well if you start with a self-contradiction....Quote"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," ... who knows where you'll end up? In fact, the very idea of this thread puts me in mind of the Walrus and the Carpenter:Quote"The time has come," the Walrus said,"To talk of many things:Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--Of cabbages--and kings--And why the sea is boiling hot--And whether pigs have wings."I believe theologians pondered for may centuries over the intriguing question of how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Will studying the bible give us the answer? Surely someone can quote a critical passage to resolve this issue which is so vital to world peace.No need to evoke the walrus and the carpenter, dear boy, although Jesus was a carpenter by trade. There is plentiful references to angels in The Bible (Genesis 6 and Hebrews 1:5 for starters), and more here for example.

Ok, let's start with Genesis. What sticks in my memory is that snake character. He's the only one who tells the truth, doesn't lie, is not a vicious bastard like that lord person. What happens next? Can't wait to find out! Is there a twist does the lord turn out to be the goodie? No, don't spoil the ending!BTW what did they do in Gomorrah that was so awful? My bible is vague on this. Sodom was all about man-on-man love which this lord character is not too keen on, but Gomorrah seems to get destroyed for no apparent reason. The lord doesn't seem to like the ladies much either. Can someone advise, in this bible study are we to read these stories as if they are a) true, b) allegories, c) fairytales/horror stories, d) really bad literature or something else? P

Someone else (like ppauper) can probably chime in here, but yes, Genesis is about the creation of the universe and man (by God) and the Fall of mankind. Off to quite a good start shouldn't you say? Now the snake was deceiptful and tricked poor Eve in the Garden of Eden (aka Paradise) into trying the forbidden fruit. Suddenly her and Adam were aware of their nakedness and this disobedience to God condemned man to die forever more. The whole of the Old Testament, as far as I can gather is about fearing God, and any disobedience is punished rather severely by God - forty years of wandering in the wilderness, plagues of locusts, famine, disease, death of infants, whole nations brought to their knees for centuries etc.etc. Exodus is about Israel escaping from Eygpt back to the Holy Land, the land of milk and honey. The Prophets also prophesise about the coming of Jesus to save mankind.Now just as the Old Testament was about the Fall of man, so the New is about our salvation, luckily enough. One analogy of Jesus is God reaching into Hell and rescuing Adam, the Son of Man. This is the good news. Basically God got so utterly fed up with the mess that man kept creating (sound familiar?) that He decided to do something about it and sent His only Son, who he loved, to Earth to die in order to save us from our own sins. So we are saved. Once and forever. This is the good news. We only have to rejoice now, and await his second coming as per the book of Revelations. Oh and we are to sin no more or else a firey destination awaits us - the wages of sin are death (Romans). Makes perfect sense to me .There's plenty more besides but these are just some of the highlights!

QuotePaul: Can someone advise, in this bible study are we to read these stories as if they are a) true, b) allegories, c) fairytales/horror stories, d) really bad literature or something else?You should read every word in The Bible as the Truth; after all it is the Word of God. Sure Jesus told some parables in order to elucidate some of the spiritual truths from God as well.

Though this was quant finance forum? interest and such things: Ezekiel 18:13 (New International Version)QuoteHe lends at usury and takes excessive interest. Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head. PaulQuoteWhat sticks in my memory is that snake character. guess you mean the Serpent. Yes the Serpent is very wise, and why do it tends to bite its own tail, and why do it show up in peoples dreams or when they "hallucinate" Many of Carl Jungs patients was dreaming about serpents Medicine priest in Amazon tend to meet Serpents when they are high (NOT SNAKES)The Great BC Ohio Serpent the great serpent in Ohio The Serpent biting its own tail was known in Egypt, in Greece it was known as Ouroboros, and in China many thousand years ago as the dragon-serpent biting its own tail, and of course among the Vikings: The last meeting between the serpent and Thor is predicted to occur at Ragnarök (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgard_serpent)....And lets not forget the Alchemists that probably knew the true meaning of the Ouroboros symbol, too bad the church executed or Imprisoned most of them...

Why not start your studies with a search for "Bible" or "Torah" at The Cornell ArXiv?So far as I can recall, the rules for the management of a loan security and the writing off of debts were first laid down in Torah. I think usury was also covered, though not quantitatively defined. I am wondering what other elements of finance were laid down at that time......

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuotePaul: Can someone advise, in this bible study are we to read these stories as if they are a) true, b) allegories, c) fairytales/horror stories, d) really bad literature or something else?You should read every word in The Bible as the Truth; after all it is the Word of God. Sure Jesus told some parables in order to elucidate some of the spiritual truths from God as well.Since, by definition, God does not exist in the natural world (she is supposed to be supernatural), neither does her word. I can imagine a unicorn. Indeed I can imagine flying pigs. I can imagine God. But if they are not part of our world, then there is no means of knowing of their existence nor any reason to worry about it.If I told you the world was created by a flying unicorn and chose me to be their spokesperson, there would be no logical reason to believe me any less than believing the bible was the "Word of God". The very phrase "Word of God" is as meaningless as a square circle. And when someone says "I am the way, the truth and the life" then I assume they are grammatically challenged (religious folk love to gush forth such category mistakes in the vain hope that by mystifying they can manipulate) and want to direct them to a good English teacher. What would you think if I said "I am the bus, the colour and the vegetable"? If, on the other hand, by "God" you mean nothing more than something mysterious and unknowable, then, again by definition, you cannot "know" that the bible is their word. You don't even have any logical reason to imagine it might be -- although you might have some emotional attachment to the idea.I'm quite happy that my garden is beautiful without having to believe there are millions of invisible fairies working on it day and night. Demanding the choice (a) truth is like insisting that those fairies are really there. It's pointless.I had a vague hope that people in this Forum would respect Popper's dictum that the only theories of any value are those which propose tests that can falsify them. So, TJ, if you wish to claim the bible as truth, what tests do you propose that would disprove this idea? How about finding fossils that date back more than 6000 years? Would that falsify it?Some relevant quotes for your edification:QuoteA celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism. --Carl SaganThe first clergyman was the first rascal who met the first fool. --Voltaire

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionQuoteOriginally posted by: brontosauruswhy not start with Genesis?Well if you start with a self-contradiction....Quote"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," ... who knows where you'll end up? A contradiction? I must have missed it...

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulCan someone advise, in this bible study are we to read these stories as if they are a) true, b) allegories, c) fairytales/horror stories, d) really bad literature or something else? PI think for optimal results we should read the texts honestly - which can mean any of the above