Hi,I am a fresh Ph.D with no experience no internship. I would like to find some advise and information about getting my first Quantitative Finance Jobs.I did my undergraduate in a top University in China, my Ph.D degree in an Ivy League, then I worked as a posdoctoral fellow in another Ivy League. My research area is theoretical chemical physics. Some of my colleagues from my group get into Quantitative Finance before 2008. But now I found it is very hard to get in with no experience. I have spoken with few headhunters and got two interviews. But I didn't perform well and failed. I think if I could get more interview experience, I would perform better. But now I have no interviews at all and no headhunter contact me now.I also contacted with a few people working in finance now, almost every one told me there is no openning!And I have visa problem, I am thinking to find a position back in Asia, especially Hong Kong. But Hong Kong would prefer people with American finance experience. Bad luck again!Could any one give me some suggestion? Any advice is welcome! I am almost frustrated now.Thanks a lot!

PIZZABB: Some of my colleagues from my group get into Quantitative Finance before 2008. But now I found it is very hard to get in with no experience. If you know people that are working in finance, drop them an e-mail to see if they know of any job openings. This is by-far the most effective way of finding job openings.As far as headhunters. Keep looking and from time to do check up with old headhunters to see if they have anything new.PIZZABB: Could any one give me some suggestion?There is a headhunter from HK that shows up and you could PM him. Or you could find someone that responds to your posts and PM them to see if they know anything.

QuoteBut now I found it is very hard to get in with no experience. I found it surprisingly easy...

QuoteOriginally posted by: MatthewMQuoteBut now I found it is very hard to get in with no experience. I found it surprisingly easy...When? Where? What kind of position?Provide some extra info or your presence here is completely useless.@PIZZABB: My impression is that the job market for newcomers is still quite poor. I'm talking about Europe. Probably the best you can get from average HH is that you find a place into her DB and increase your chances that something shows up in the near future (HHs have quite a limited attention span). You'd probably better apply directly for the graduates programmes you can find on the major IB Careers webpages.

QuoteOriginally posted by: MatthewMQuoteBut now I found it is very hard to get in with no experience. I found it surprisingly easy...You are the exception! kudos!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by: PIZZABBCould any one give me some suggestion? Any advice is welcome! I am almost frustrated now.Have you read Paul & Dominic's Guide to Getting a Quant Job? If not then find Dominic Connor in this forum and request it from him. Also check out Mark Joshi's guide, available at his web site.

Right now, most of the hiring is in IT and Risk. Risk needs VBA, SQL, C++, OO. You probably need to study some of the MFE materials before you go for interviews. These days they want people who already have the knowledge even if they do not have experience. INHO, you will be happier in Hongkong. Lots of jobs, booming economy, 15% tax rate. The taxes in New York City make grown people have mental breakdowns.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Right now, most of the hiring is in IT and Risk. Risk needs VBA, SQL, C++, OO. You probably need to study some of the MFE materials before you go for interviews. These days they want people who already have the knowledge even if they do not have experience. INHO, you will be happier in Hongkong. Lots of jobs, booming economy, 15% tax rate. The taxes in New York City make grown people have mental breakdowns.Agree. Finance knowledge is given quite a bit of weight in the current market. Of course, twofish is going to say that you do not need to know anything in finance to land a job. That is 100% true if it is a BO/infrastructure kind of position and not otherwise.Think about it. If two candidates with fairly similar resumes show up, one with finance knowledge and the other without it, whom will you hire? Nowadays, every open position gets 500 hits, out of which 20 candidates get through the initial resume filter. Of the 20, quite a few already have relevant experience and the other fresh grads who are competitive have a bookish knowledge of finance. Fresh grads without finance knowledge land in the pile consisting of 480 resumes.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterAgree. Finance knowledge is given quite a bit of weight in the current market. Of course, twofish is going to say that you do not need to know anything in finance to land a job. That is 100% true if it is a BO/infrastructure kind of position and not otherwise.1) That's not true.2) A real live BO job that pays real cash money is better than a non-existent FO job. BO/infrastructure is hiring. FO is not.QuoteOf the 20, quite a few already have relevant experience and the other fresh grads who are competitive have a bookish knowledge of finance. Fresh grads without finance knowledge land in the pile consisting of 480 resumes.Depends on the job. For the jobs I'm familiar with (and that I know have open positions), the absolute requirements is to be really good at math and really good at C++. If you aren't really good at these two skills, then it doesn't matter how good your finance is, you just are not qualified for the position. The absolute *minimum* for the jobs that I'm familiar with are either a Ph.D. in a science or engineering topic or a masters in science/engineering with computation work experience, and if you don't have either of the two, you just going to get filtered out. Now I only see one part of a giant pond, but that's true for every one else here. Also, if you have a technical Ph.D., it's probably better if you look at the parts of the pond in which Ph.D.'s are being hired than to look at other parts of the pond.Also, if you do have a lot of math skills, it will help a lot of you read up on quantitative finance. The assumption if you get hired for these sorts of jobs is that you will be able to learn finance on your own, very, very quickly, and if you can by books from Amazon and teach yourself QF, that looks good.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976You probably need to study some of the MFE materials before you go for interviews.It will help you if you read MFE material. Do not waste your money and try to get an MFE. Part of what some firms are looking for is how quickly you can teach yourself MFE material, since it turns out that much of the MFE curriculum is wrong or useless. Also find out as much as you can about the job, and go to the library and read up as much as you can about the topic of the job. Something that will give you a lot of benefit for a little study is to learn some very basic terminology. What is a greek? What is a put option and a call option? QuoteThese days they want people who already have the knowledge even if they do not have experience.One advantage that I have is that when I talk about hiring, I can speak in the first person. I can tell you want we want, and not what they want. Something that is surprising for job seekers who get the door slammed in their face so often is how difficult it is for people that hire to find qualified people.

QuoteDepends on the job. For the jobs I'm familiar with (and that I know have open positions), the absolute requirements is to be really good at math and really good at C++. If you aren't really good at these two skills, then it doesn't matter how good your finance is, you just are not qualified for the position. The absolute *minimum* for the jobs that I'm familiar with are either a Ph.D. in a science or engineering topic or a masters in science/engineering with computation work experience, and if you don't have either of the two, you just going to get filtered out. Now I only see one part of a giant pond, but that's true for every one else here. Also, if you have a technical Ph.D., it's probably better if you look at the parts of the pond in which Ph.D.'s are being hired than to look at other parts of the pond.Also, if you do have a lot of math skills, it will help a lot of you read up on quantitative finance. The assumption if you get hired for these sorts of jobs is that you will be able to learn finance on your own, very, very quickly, and if you can by books from Amazon and teach yourself QF, that looks good.Agree with your points. Most successful entry-level candidates with a science/math graduate degree that I have seen have locked themselves in a room and read popular QF books. Their level of preparation is commensurate with the books they have read. It is definitely not going to be very useful on the job but is certainly a plus and shows initiative. MFE as a degree is probably less valuable than a hard science Master's in the job market nowadays.

Thanks for everyone's advise! You guys are really helpful.I have self-learnt the finance bible books: Options, Futures, and Other derivatives by John Hull, Stochastic Calculus in Finance by Steven Shreve. Audited some MFE classes. I probably lacke of really finance experience. As some of you mentioned my resume will be filtered because of lacking experience. Twofish, you mentioned a HK headhunter in the Forum. Could you please tell me his forum ID?

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Right now, most of the hiring is in IT and Risk. Risk needs VBA, SQL, C++, OO. somebody please explain to me why someone who codes C++ and SQL and OO would think joining an IT or Risk dept and be treated like a 3rd class citizen inside a humongous bank is a better career path than joining Microsoft or Google or a silicon valley start up, where you could at least be a second class citizen and get some stock options.

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Right now, most of the hiring is in IT and Risk. Risk needs VBA, SQL, C++, OO. somebody please explain to me why someone who codes C++ and SQL and OO would think joining an IT or Risk dept and be treated like a 3rd class citizen inside a humongous bank is a better career path than joining Microsoft or Google or a silicon valley start up, where you could at least be a second class citizen and get some stock options. 1) Some people like the NYC lifestyle more than the West coast lifestyle2) There are places in finance that do try to copy bits of the google/microsoft culture. 3) The pay is somewhat better4) The work is more stimulating in some ways. If you mess up at Google, you aren't going to destroy the world. If the risk department at a major IB royally screws up, then you can destroy the world.5) The hours are better than working at a startup, and if you know even basic QF, you know how to value a stock option.

It is very easy to say "Join MS/Google".Getting a job in QF is much easier than MS/Google. In real world MS/Google would hire mainly CS people whereas QF could hire who know bit of everything.