I recently had an interview at one of the big i-banks (MS, GS, CS, B of A etc.). During the interview, the only thing I was asked about was my research -- no brain teasers, no programming questions. Just research -- both mine and my interviewer's. Overall, I felt the interview went very well. In fact, after I got over my nerves, I rally enjoyed the experience. I got the feeling that I was interviewing for a job at a university rather than a bank.This spring, I will graduate with a PhD in mathematical finance. And, I had always thought that I would continue on in academia as a postdoc or (with a lot of luck) as an assistant professor at a mid-tier university. But, because I thoroughly enjoyed the i-bank interview, and because I would actually very much like to work with the person that interviewed me, I am considering working at an i-bank.My question is: do research jobs exist at banks? Bruno Dupire and Alex Lipton, work at Bloomberg and B of A respectively. And they still manage to publish papers. If I could somehow get a job as part of one of those "quant teams", would the opportunity exist to publish papers?I am very curious to work at a bank because, frankly, I know nothing about how banks actually operate. And, I would enjoy having the opportunity to work in a new environment. But, I don't want to totally give up the idea of returning to academia. So, I assume, I would still need to publish.

Not really sure what kind of details you're looking for but most quant jobs contain a fair amount of research be they for implementation or for innovation. Opportunities to publish papers on new things are limited though since the bank will generally own all your research results and want to keep it as it's own (if it makes money shut up about it and put it to work, if it doesn't make money; who'd care).I think the more research oriented roles will be labelled as quantitative research analyst or simply quantitative analyst (but requiring a Phd).I still think in most cases you need programming too because you need to be able to prototype and deliver what your asked to implement or innovate based off your research.More experienced people will hopefully provide more information.

QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiOpportunities to publish papers on new things are limited though since the bank will generally own all your research results and want to keep it as it's own (if it makes money shut up about it and put it to work, if it doesn't make money; who'd care).My experience is that making money is the last thing math finance professors care about. As long as the ratio of any two non-dividend paying assets is a martingale, the research should be publishable.

QuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckQuoteOriginally posted by: HansiOpportunities to publish papers on new things are limited though since the bank will generally own all your research results and want to keep it as it's own (if it makes money shut up about it and put it to work, if it doesn't make money; who'd care).My experience is that making money is the last thing math finance professors care about. As long as the ratio of any two non-dividend paying assets is a martingale, the research should be publishable.:-)There is a huge distance between finance professors and Zen monks.

Academic position may not be so easy to get. If your PhD is in Finance from the Business School, then there are three positions available for every person who gets the PhD degree. If your PhD degree is in Mathematics, my understanding is that only the top 5% of the Math PhDs are able to get faculty positions. The rest of them either do post-docs, or they come to Wall Street to work.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Academic position may not be so easy to get. If your PhD is in Finance from the Business School, then there are three positions available for every person who gets the PhD degree. If your PhD degree is in Mathematics, my understanding is that only the top 5% of the Math PhDs are able to get faculty positions. The rest of them either do post-docs, or they come to Wall Street to work.My PhD will be in Mathematics from a top 10 university.I do not recall ever saying that getting an faculty job would be easy. In fact, I specifically stated that I thought a post-doc would be the most likely next step.The point of my post isn't to really discuss my qualifications for any job anyway. I am just curious as to whether or not a research position are available at i-banks (or hedge funds for that matter). By "research" I mean working on things which, in theory, could be published in a academic journal -- even if I wouldn't be allowed to do so. I understand that programming would likely be involved in any job. But, I wouldn't consider working at a bank if programming were the main duty of me job.

QuoteI wouldn't consider working at a bank if programming were the main duty of me jobThe goal of banks is not the generation of code. The goal of "i-banks (or hedge funds for that matter)" is to make money. As long as you can convince someone that your "working on things which, in theory, could be published in a academic journal" will lead to commercial work that will make money, you will get the mandate to do such work.

The IBs have equity research groups where they actually do research. In HFs like Citadel, they also have Fundamental Research groups where they do actual Finance research. But they tend to hire Finance PhDs for these positions. It seems that they were interviewing you for a position like this where they were more interested in your research topics. The typical Math PhDs who work as quants spend 80% of their time writing C++ code.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976The IBs have equity research groups where they actually do research. In HFs like Citadel, they also have Fundamental Research groups where they do actual Finance research. But they tend to hire Finance PhDs for these positions. It seems that they were interviewing you for a position like this where they were more interested in your research topics. The typical Math PhDs who work as quants spend 80% of their time writing C++ code.This is highly useful for me. If 80% of my time will be spent generating C++ code then you can stick a fork in me -- I'm not interested.But, this is why I am curious about the job I interviewed for. Nobody at the Bank has told me exactly what position I am a candidate for. And, like I said, the interview was entirely focused on my research and the research of my interviewer. So, that suggests to me that the job isn't about programming so much. Anyway, I'm sure I'll get a better picture of the job as the interview process continues.

QuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckBut, this is why I am curious about the job I interviewed for. Nobody at the Bank has told me exactly what position I am a candidate for.That's because they likely don't know. What often happens is that the bank needs X people, and they aren't sure which candidate goes with which job.

QuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckThe point of my post isn't to really discuss my qualifications for any job anyway. I am just curious as to whether or not a research position are available at i-banks (or hedge funds for that matter). By "research" I mean working on things which, in theory, could be published in a academic journal -- even if I wouldn't be allowed to do so.There's tons of that. One issue is the *type* of research. For example, a lot of the C++ coding that gets done is done at the very edges of the language, and would easily be something that is publishable in a CS journal.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976The typical Math PhDs who work as quants spend 80% of their time writing C++ code.On the other hand, saying that someone spends 80% of their time writing C++ code is a little like saying someone spends their 80% of their time writing English. It's *what* you are writing in C++ that makes things interesting or not interesting. When I was in graduate school, 80% of my research involved writing and debugging Fortran code.

QuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckThis is highly useful for me. If 80% of my time will be spent generating C++ code then you can stick a fork in me -- I'm not interested.If you cannot code your own ideas, then you are at the mercy of those who can. That's a very bad situation to be in, unless you are sufficiently senior to order _smart_ people to write _good_ code for you.Code is like typing - there used to be a time a long time ago when secretaries would type things out for their bosses. Today anyone asking for a stenographer would be laughed at. In 2030, maybe much sooner (!), any one incapable of coding his own thoughts will be laughed at. (Similarly anyone who is a coder but does not understand the business will be unemployable but that's a different story.)I see this trend all around me - junior bankers, quants, strats, etc fresh out of college are much _better_ at coding than the IT people at comparable experience levels.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ArthurDentQuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckThis is highly useful for me. If 80% of my time will be spent generating C++ code then you can stick a fork in me -- I'm not interested.If you cannot code your own ideas, then you are at the mercy of those who can. That's a very bad situation to be in, unless you are sufficiently senior to order _smart_ people to write _good_ code for you.Code is like typing - there used to be a time a long time ago when secretaries would type things out for their bosses. Today anyone asking for a stenographer would be laughed at. In 2030, maybe much sooner (!), any one incapable of coding his own thoughts will be laughed at. (Similarly anyone who is a coder but does not understand the business will be unemployable but that's a different story.)I see this trend all around me - junior bankers, quants, strats, etc fresh out of college are much _better_ at coding than the IT people at comparable experience levels.I guess I don't mind writing code for my own research. Heck, I already do that. I'm just not interested in being the junior quant that implements some senior quant's code.BTW, if so much coding has to be done at banks, why don't they just outsource the coding to India? Or do they already do that and I am just unaware of it?

QuoteOriginally posted by: psyduckI guess I don't mind writing code for my own research. Heck, I already do that. I'm just not interested in being the junior quant that implements some senior quant's code.If you cannot function in a hierarchy, it'll be tough to work in a bank.QuoteBTW, if so much coding has to be done at banks, why don't they just outsource the coding to India? Or do they already do that and I am just unaware of it?For the same reason that you do not outsource your blog posts production to India.It is easiest when the person doing the thinking and the person doing the writing are the same, or at least talking to each other constantly. Does not matter whether the writing is in English or in C++. Otherwise the specification of the output has to be so detailed, that the time and cost overruns are huge.Think of every project as similar to 1st year of grad school where you are bringing the other person up to speed before they can even understand what you want them to do. Now imagine doing that with a 12 hour timezone difference.