Guys,I want to get an idea of what IT would be like as an alternative career.As way of background, having done a Fin Maths masters after my Maths degree, I was a quant for 5 months (pricing CDOs, supporting Front Office quants, developing and running Market Risk reports), but my team was shut down very early on. I made a few efforts to get to being a quant but found that without a PhD (and now having done "something else" since) means I don't stand a chance of ever being one again. I've found similar with trying to get into market risk roles.While I did eventually enjoy the alternative industry I ended up in (Project Finance) to a certain extent and did develop, this was limited and the simple fact is that PF roles are essentially lending roles with little analysis of markets or stochastic movements of any kind reuired, so I found myself suddenly using zero of my mathematical and quantitative skill set and struggling with much of the analysis and politics that goes with Project Finance roles. Unfortunately the reality of that situation is that it made me look bad compared to other colleagues who were more suited to this kind of job, but luckily my last employer recognised that and gave me a voluntary redundancy before it got out of hand.At the moment I'm looking at Project Finance Modelling in Excel, which formed part of previous role, but even there I'm having issues with experience as my previous modelling experience isn't sufficient to simply swan into that kind of role. I'm finding I have had some sucess sourcing roles through networking and employers have been very positive about me and my experience, but the market is flaky and many employers are cutting hiring before getting a chance to interview me. Also the networking is shockingly difficult.I'm just wondering what kind of roles in IT would best suit a maths grad? In terms of programming I have numerous languages (C, C++, Python, Java, VBA, Matlab) and have kept them up in my spare time, but unfortunately beyond what I did as a quant I have very little actual experience of using this in a work context except for one VBA project I did in my last role which wasn't exactly a challenge. People keep telling me that there's a shortage in IT, but I'm not convinced that any of the "loads of IT jobs" that are out there are suited to me.

OK you're probably about 25 so the idea that your life path is now set in stone and cannot be changed is somewhat ridiculous.The only sort of IT role in a bank etc that would be interesting for you would be quant developer which you could try to leverage into more quant-based work. Your coding skills are probably a little light but you could wing it.The IT function in finance has increasingly less and less to do with programming. Working for some sort of risk-management software vendor would probably be better than working in IT for a bank both for useful experience and day-to-day enjoyment. There's not much difference between the two in salary in the current banking climate.

QuoteOriginally posted by: MattFOK you're probably about 25unlikely. The OP joined wilmott in nov 2004 - that's 8 yrs back. If he was in his low to mid 20s then (Bachelors in Maths, Masters in Fin Maths = age 22 or 23), he is probably in his early 30s now.Stay away from banking IT.Go back and get a PhD in hard core CS if you want a decent job in a real Technology firm - but that has a high opportunity cost, and high volatility - you don't know if tech will have a post-Facebook recession for a few years by the time you get out. But your PhD will get you a niche R&D role easily, with pay lower than in Quant work but likely better pay/work than Banking IT.You are also young enough to say "and now for something completely different" and switch over to biotech or cancer research or something like that. The number of people who work in medicine and have any clue about math or programming is abysmally low, and is a nice niche to get tenure at a decent uni.

So is there any viable option for me that doesn't necessarily involve the nightmare of a PhD ( probably 3-5 years + difficulty getting funding)? I'm assuming this would mean something to start in 2013? This isn't convenient at all.I'm not in the humour to go through the nightmare of a role that has nothing to do with my skill set or education and subsequently getting shat upon by my bosses. Unfortunately I have found out the hard that being in a job that isn't you is more than just displeasing - I was nearly dismissed from my last job thanks to being in the wrong job. I just can't believe I'm never going to use my masters again - I was always told otherwise, but ever since being moved out of quant finance against my will I have tried umpteen times for the last 5/6 years to get back into a more suitable role only to be told that because PF has nothing to do with quant/market risk I can't do so, even though I have a stochastic calculus and maths background.

QuoteYou are also young enough to say "and now for something completely different" and switch over to biotech or cancer research or something like that. The number of people who work in medicine and have any clue about math or programming is abysmally low, and is a nice niche to get tenure at a decent uni.we need to be careful not to fall in the grass is greener elsewhere trap. A close acquaintance of mine has a stellar pedigree in biotech (phd in molecular biology from top school, etc) and her current remuneration package and prospects are not that enviable. I know its a small sample but my point is that the supply/demand picture for junior roles/candidates in biotech is not much rosier that quant finance.

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlexandreBQuoteYou are also young enough to say "and now for something completely different" and switch over to biotech or cancer research or something like that. The number of people who work in medicine and have any clue about math or programming is abysmally low, and is a nice niche to get tenure at a decent uni.we need to be careful not to fall in the grass is greener elsewhere trap. A close acquaintance of mine has a stellar pedigree in biotech (phd in molecular biology from top school, etc) and her current remuneration package and prospects are not that enviable. I know its a small sample but my point is that the supply/demand picture for junior roles/candidates in biotech is not much rosier that quant finance.True, you and I are both suffering from a small sample bias with respect to people in bio, pointing in opposite directions.But the bigger point is that if OP hates his job and cannot find something to his liking, he is still young enough to go back to college for another degree...

IT is very labor intensive. That is why there are lots of jobs available. But you will need to get at least three years experience before you actually become productive in IT. The learning curve can be quite tough. First, you will have to memorize a lot of stuff just to pass the technical interview. Then, you will probably be working on contract basis and may get fired from a few projects because no one will want to train you. They all want experienced contractors with BS in Computer Science and 5 years experience. That being said, there are a lot of people who barely completed high school, taught themselves the IT stuff purely out of interest and are now making 600 - 800 pounds per day with 7+ years experience. In IT a high-school dropout with 7 years IT development experience is far more valuable than a top PhD with zero experience.So forget about your fancy degrees and enter IT only if you are genuinely interested in it and are willing to go through 3 years of suffering and learning.

traderjoe1976 your advice sounds about right - I hope I haven't fallen into the "only hearing what you want to hear" trap.This certainly rings true with me from some of the IT people I have known over the years. I housed with I 2 IBM programmers when I did my masters who had long hours and had to read through 2,000 pages in their first week to get up to industry standard. I suspect that's what you mean by labour intenstive. I also have an acquaintance who I meet on Meetup ocassionaly, who is at relatively senior level, and while he hasn't detailed what goes on I can from what he says that I would have some grief in IT.I can certainly relate to not being trained having done 3 days worth of training in Project Finance + on the job training, which isn't great considering I didn't even know PF existed when I came to the City and where my prior training was in derivatives which is largely unused in PF.I suspect on these bases that even if I was well and truly into IT it would be a painful process.Having said that, I think you've given me a bit piece of mind as I now have something to fend off all the people that keep suggesting lists of alternative careers, one of which is IT. I expect my next role will be in something like Financial Modelling in Excel, but something that will take time to get, which I'm fine with given my savings.The reason I asked was just to be sure I'm not missing out and as some people who aren't in IT and have seen some of my programming make that connection and think that on the basis that I have made silly Championship Manager games, that I will swan into a role like that. Hopefully some of the newbies on this forum, some of whom sound stressed, will read this and take note, as I has the same discussions with people when I finished my MSc, although I have heard of aspiring quants doing IT instead, which is sad to hear.Naturally though it won't shut people up as I am 4 months out of work, so what would I know? (take that in sarcastic tone as I've been through it all before)

I think to add to that, having to memorise stuff reminds me of applying for quant positions, which was ok when I was 22/23 as I also got paid nicely in my first role. My IBM flatmates were making EUR 20k p.a. (c. GBP 15k at the time) which is ridiculous considering their PhDs...